What is driving the current “anti alcohol” rhetoric online

I had a product demo for some venue software today from some ozzies today - one of the examples was alcohol issues on site.
Vendor kept showing us how it could handle that.

After about the 5th time, I mentioned - we don't have those sort of issues at our venue. Lost kids, lost items, sure. Drunk customers - no.

They muttered something about Australians being more of a drinking culture.
 
EADC said:
Drinking is haram would never do such things
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I have only one response to this....

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I mean... pedophilia and abusing goats/donkeys is all good but drinking is bad?

What the hell kind of messed up system is that?
 
Zellephant said:
So, in your opinion, is abstinence during the week, with binging on weekends better or worse than someone who regularly consumes a moderate amount of alcohol? Like me, for instance, who has a beer or a glass of wine almost daily - and then sometimes has a bit more back to back on special or social occasions.

I will be clear, in my opionion, Binge drinking is one of the biggest problems with alcohol consumption, and the primary thing that leads to people having real addiction and severe health complications from it.
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I admitted to myself that binge-drinking was problematic, and binge-drinking itself is a pattern of alcoholism/alcohol abuse.

Perhaps a question you need to ask yourself is why do so many of the things you do need to involve alcohol even if in moderation? Can the activity be separated from the alcohol or do you need to have a drink? Is a pattern of alcohol consumption not a warning sign, even if in moderation?

Zellephant said:
I have also lived with addicts. My brother went down a very bad path with amphetamines once upon a time, so I am familiar with the whole sober living scenario

But would you, out of your experience, think that alcoholism is an alcohol problem, or is there a deeper underlying mental health issue, which is just in some individuals triggered by alcohol?
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Of course there are other issues, but the ease of access to alcohol and the social acceptability of it makes it a problem in and of itself. Alcohol also has the tendency to amplify these underlying issues. A great example of this is poor impulse control. Somebody who battles with depression and drinks to cope, the effects of alcohol will trigger/worsen already low impulse control, leading to a potentially bad decision, a decision they may well not make when sober, even if they are depressed. In this scenario, alcohol is indeed a problem.

These people should be in therapy or managing themselves in healthier ways, but they aren't, and alcohol ''weaponises'' whatever is ailing them. It removes the guardrails and places them on a collision course with everyone else around them.

And even in moderation, sustained alcohol consumption is not good for you, mentally or physically. Of course everyone is free to make their own decisions and choices here, but you cannot ignore nor downplay the negative effects of even a daily drink.
 
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At the end of the day you don't NEED the alcohol content to have something that tastes nice.

"the health benefits" have largely been disproven.

"Because our forefathers did it" is literally the dumbest reason to do ANYTHING - it's the exact reason that things such as racism, slavery etc still continue to this day.

If you want to have booze... shap. That's your choice. I do from time to time.
The mental gymnastics to justify wanting to drink alcohol literally sounds like an alcoholic trying to avoid meetings.
Just say "I drink sometimes because I like to" and that's fine... there's no reason to defend it.

Alcohol is basically a "net negative". And for many people it's a big problem. Different individuals have different brain chemistry, personality types, circumstances etc.
 
thestaggy said:
Perhaps a question you need to ask yourself is why do so many of the things you do need to involve alcohol even if in moderation? Can the activity be separated from the alcohol or do you need to have a drink? Is a pattern of alcohol consumption not a warning sign, even if in moderation?
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I have given this a lot of thought in relation to this thread - and especially after a few others here mentioned how giving up alcohol didn't really impact their lifestyle, and disconnecting from it in all the places it is consumed socially wasn't really a problem for them. On that measure alone, I then definitely do have a "problem".

For me to cut it out of my life would be almost impossible without completely uprooting my life. I literally live on a wine estate, my father is a wine maker. I have my own small hobby vineyard and which I make "experimental" wine on, for my own consumption and to share with friends. Another hobby of mine is distilling, and I make grappa from the remnants of my wine-making hobby, and also from pomace I get from family and friends. I also brew my own small batches of beer as a hobby. These are literally the things I do to entertain myself when the weather is bad, and I can't be out doing outdoor activities. So literally all of that will have to change for me to walk away from drinking. Then obviously also changing my diet entirely, because I will no longer be able to eat more than half of our family's traditional cuisine.

Then there is the economic side of things: I am a shareholder in a gin business; I mean, technically I could keep that position, but not consume the product, but that would make me a massive hypocrite. I am a director of a charity that is 100% funded by alcohol companies - so I would need to give that up, along with the business networking opportunities that come with that. I recently became a silent partner in my brother's new bistro (the same brother who used to have the amphetamine issues) - which means my name in on the liquor license there, and it means I attend a lot of wine pairings and so on there, which are hard to do without drinking wine.

Then there is obviously the social side of things, the friends I have made, some of them solely as a result of my wine and beermaking hobbies. So I would need to find new social circles. Then there are all the events one is invited to where there are celebrations and toasts and so on - sure there are non alcohol options for these, but they are never as nice tasting as the real stuff - and one can only drink so much sparkling water. All of this hasn't even factored in the social life losses from spending time with the old oomies sipping red wine and grappa and listening to their stories.

So, I would essentially need to completely redesign my life if I were to cut out alcohol - and I really dont want to - because it's a damn good life.
 
With daily use there will just be a few people into the taste or enough into the culture, mostly it's used to get out of it (reality). A habit but it's nice to have a regular Old Brown Sherry or Whiskey.

Stronger social drinking like the Brits in their pubs doesn't come across as healthy to some of us.

Socially acceptable, and far less harmful than many drugs. Is dangerous though, my grandfather had terrible health issues and a bad exit 'cos he abused - not badly but it caught up with him.
 
warrenpridgeon said:
At the end of the day you don't NEED the alcohol content to have something that tastes nice.
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Maybe not, but I am yet to taste the "alcohol free" beer or wine that doesn't taste awful - and if one is not a fan of sweet sugary drinks, there aren't that many alternative options. Never mind the use of alcohol in cooking - there is literally no replacement for red wine in a sauce, or whiskey or brandy, etc.
warrenpridgeon said:
"the health benefits" have largely been disproven.
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Yes, apparently - but the fact that moderate consumption also has zero long-term negative impact has also been proven. Anecdotal evidence on top of this further proves that reasonably "high" long-term consumption also doesn't - only extreme levels of consumption have real health negatives. I am talking about my lived experience with octagenerians in across Europe who drink daily and have done so their entire lives.
warrenpridgeon said:
"Because our forefathers did it" is literally the dumbest reason to do ANYTHING - it's the exact reason that things such as racism, slavery etc still continue to this day.
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Culture is important. no one is saying all of it needs to be kept, and we cant learn from it, but keeping ones culture alive is important.
warrenpridgeon said:
If you want to have booze... shap. That's your choice. I do from time to time.
The mental gymnastics to justify wanting to drink alcohol literally sounds like an alcoholic trying to avoid meetings.
Just say "I drink sometimes because I like to" and that's fine... there's no reason to defend it.
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No one so far has tried to justify wanting to drink. I have purely stated I do, and I dont see a problem, and have put what I believe are reasonable questions forward to those advocating that the end of alcoholic consumption is a good thing. Some, like @HermeticAnarchist have put forward reasonable explanations. Others, who do not support drinking or do not see value in it have also put forward some reasonable points. Some have however, tried to make it all about alcohol abuse/misuse, which I have argued is a seperate argument. The one argument here I have and will not accept is the idea that is being put forward by some that there is absolutely no societal value brought by alcohol - or that its negatives are so heavy they easily outweigh any positive.
warrenpridgeon said:
Alcohol is basically a "net negative".
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I cannot agree, and cannot see how anyone can objectively look at the entire question of it and come to that conclusion.
warrenpridgeon said:
And for many people it's a big problem. Different individuals have different brain chemistry, personality types, circumstances etc.
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So, it is an individual issue - not an alcohol issue?
 
Zellephant said:
I have given this a lot of thought in relation to this thread - and especially after a few others here mentioned how giving up alcohol didn't really impact their lifestyle, and disconnecting from it in all the places it is consumed socially wasn't really a problem for them. On that measure alone, I then definitely do have a "problem".

For me to cut it out of my life would be almost impossible without completely uprooting my life. I literally live on a wine estate, my father is a wine maker. I have my own small hobby vineyard and which I make "experimental" wine on, for my own consumption and to share with friends. Another hobby of mine is distilling, and I make grappa from the remnants of my wine-making hobby, and also from pomace I get from family and friends. I also brew my own small batches of beer as a hobby. These are literally the things I do to entertain myself when the weather is bad, and I can't be out doing outdoor activities. So literally all of that will have to change for me to walk away from drinking. Then obviously also changing my diet entirely, because I will no longer be able to eat more than half of our family's traditional cuisine.

Then there is the economic side of things: I am a shareholder in a gin business; I mean, technically I could keep that position, but not consume the product, but that would make me a massive hypocrite. I am a director of a charity that is 100% funded by alcohol companies - so I would need to give that up, along with the business networking opportunities that come with that. I recently became a silent partner in my brother's new bistro (the same brother who used to have the amphetamine issues) - which means my name in on the liquor license there, and it means I attend a lot of wine pairings and so on there, which are hard to do without drinking wine.

Then there is obviously the social side of things, the friends I have made, some of them solely as a result of my wine and beermaking hobbies. So I would need to find new social circles. Then there are all the events one is invited to where there are celebrations and toasts and so on - sure there are non alcohol options for these, but they are never as nice tasting as the real stuff - and one can only drink so much sparkling water. All of this hasn't even factored in the social life losses from spending time with the old oomies sipping red wine and grappa and listening to their stories.

So, I would essentially need to completely redesign my life if I were to cut out alcohol - and I really dont want to - because it's a damn good life.
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What you described seems to be a fulfilling life, and a very interesting one at that.

I don't think anybody should tell you what you should and shouldn't do where alcohol is involved. Speaking for myself, my posts have merely been in response to the question you asked. There is very much a ''dark'' side to alcohol and some of us have been exposed to this in the worst possible ways, shaping how we view and consume alcohol. Some people have turned away from it completely, others are a little more conscious as to how they enjoy and indulge themselves.

I continue to enjoy my beer, but at a much reduced rate.
 
porchrat said:
I've not experienced this anti-alcohol rhetoric. Maybe I'm just running in different circles.
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ShaunSA said:
ftfy
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Zol is another one that needs an honest discussion.

Just because it is increasingly socially acceptable and it has medicinal uses, people think being gerook 24/7 has no negative side effects.

I know one such adult that can't make it past 6 in the evening without being high and passed out and then they tell me their memory is bad and they are picking up weight. No sh*t. You are smoking your brains away and eating garbage because of the munchies (on top of being sedentary). But it helps cancer patients and it doesn't make them violent like alcohol, so there is nothing wrong with it.
 
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