'Like a missile coming down' - Nine killed in fiery Florida jet crash

Nerfherder said:
Not only that but its could be the entire management structure of the company.

A friend of mine died in a small plane crash and they were on a management retreat. It was a family business so they were owners as well. I'm not actually sure how they worked it out after, I assume there were other shareholders that were able to step in and re-create the structure of the business. They are still going 16 years later so they did somehow figure it out.
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My mom used to book flights for the top management of what was then still known as Clover. The directors never flew on the same flight just in case something like this happened.
 
Listening to the recoding, she mentions they descending at first 10kfeet/min and then 20kfeet/min and at 60 degrees. If that is the angle of attack, that plane was nose down and not generating any lift. Even with engine failure etc, it would never be that steep. That is a major failure, either elevator, controls etc. Didn't sound like anything deliberate in the ATC traffic, hopefully the recorders survive the impact so information can be obtained.

RIP, horrible event.
 
Kosmik said:
Isn't ATC channels pretty open?
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Yup, as far as I know, ATC frequencies are published far and wide so that planes know what channel to switch to in order to get clearance/routing instructions. And they need to be open to all planes in an area, so all it takes is for one amateur radio person to be listening in and recording...
 
R13... said:
How did that get released so soon?
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Dashcams and CCTV are private, but widely shared on social media. ATC audio is publicly available in the USA (not in many other countries), and there are whole channels dedicated to storing and analysing the various frequencies. ADSB is also public (by definition), and very useful for preliminary accident analysis. We have a lot more information than 20 or 30 years ago.
 
Nerfherder said:
Hard to speculate but I imagine the flaps frose in position.

Its weird because they were asking to climb and the tower declined, then they were losing altitude at speed.

Flipping terrifying.
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Flaps are on the wings, and are used for landings. I thing you mean the elevators, which are on the tail and used for pitch control (climb/descent). There is good reason (posted by Pilot Denys) to believe those became stuck (frozen) and/or detached (overspeed), leading to complete loss of control. It is hard to think of any other cause at this stage.
 
Gordon_R said:
Flaps are on the wings, and are used for landings. I thing you mean the elevators, which are used for pitch control (climb/descent). There is good reason (posted by Pilot Denys) to believe those became stuck (frozen) and/or detached (overspeed), leading to complete loss of control. It is hard to think of any other cause at this stage.
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If the elevators were initially frozen stuck would they potentially unfreeze during the final plunge but then the velocity immediately ripped them off?
 
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Kosmik said:
Listening to the recoding, she mentions they descending at first 10kfeet/min and then 20kfeet/min and at 60 degrees. If that is the angle of attack, that plane was nose down and not generating any lift. Even with engine failure etc, it would never be that steep. That is a major failure, either elevator, controls etc. Didn't sound like anything deliberate in the ATC traffic, hopefully the recorders survive the impact so information can be obtained.

RIP, horrible event.
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It's not angle of attack. Angle of attack is the angle between the wing chord line (similar to the flight path) and relative airflow. She mentioned overspeed @ 1:24, so they were probably indeed in a very nose-low attitude and the 60 degrees she was referring to @ 1:45 was the bank angle.
 
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