3rd Degree last night

[R/SGT]

Episode Title: 3rd Degree Feedback
Broadcast date: 9 June 2009

Last July, a 69-year-old man with Alzheimer’s was apprehended at a Shoprite in Kriel, Mpumalanga for attempting to steal a R7,99 chocolate. While petty theft is considered a minor offence, Shoprite detained Frederick Brown in a holding room and handcuffed him to a chair where he allegedly sustained injuries.

He was later pepper sprayed by police, an act caught on CCTV, and taken to the police station where he was locked up in an unfurnished, dark holding cell. The police refused to let Brown’s family see him and did not call a doctor, although they were aware of his mental condition.

Five hours after his arrest, Brown died of a heart attack in police custody. Brown’s family wanted answers, but when the police and Shoprite investigated, they found that nobody was responsible for his death.

3rd Degree investigates what happened on the to ask: could Brown’s death have been prevented?

There needs to be thorough investigation of this, this man should not have died, he should have never been in police custody in the first place.

This police station is a disgrace and the SAPS management needs to fire and criminally charge the members involved in this fiasco

 

[<moLe>]

its the way of the country as of late...our police men are turning into little more than vigilante's with a badge, each trying to stamp their own brand of "justice", each with their own twisted reasons....

 

[porn$tar]

That superintendent trying to defend her station was really pathetic.

Maybe it's the authority in her voice, but that Debora Patta really revs my motor. mmm, dominatrix.

 

[InSanity]

I actually really wanted to watch that but forgot

 

[killadoob]

I think shoprite should also take some of the blame.

 

[PeterCH]

I think shoprite should also take some of the blame.

True. Shoprite is partially to blame for the man's death. Well done Shoprite.

 

[sjm]

Didn't watch it but if that is indeed the case then both Shoprite & the cops need to be held accountable.

 

[sox63]

I think the old man's family should shoulder a large part of the blame as well. Before you jump all over me, my Grandmother had Alzheimers and really such people really behave that way because they dont know any better. My gran was not allowed to go anywhere without someone with her, becuase when she left alone, we would not only struggle to find her, but as well the situations she got herself in were not safe.

Fortunatly in the community she lived in, she was well known, so my mum or uncle would get a call. A person with Alzheimers should NOT be left alone, it is a recipe for disaster as they behave like kids really becuase they simply dont know any better.

As for the behaviour of the cops and Shoprite, that is standard procedure when they catch someone shoplifting. Regardless of how old those people are. I'm sure some of you have seen it happen as well, but its usually some young kid or guy. And tbh, shoplifting should be discouraged under all circumstances, it is stealing. And that mentality we need to get rid of in our society.

It is just tragic that in this situation, a old sick person who SHOULD NOT have been alone in the first place, could not handle the stress that came with it and had a heart attack. The family that is asking these questions should ask themselves, where THEY were when all of this happened.

 

[profpanda]

And a couple million won't cover the loss of the family

 

[porn$tar]

I think the old man's family should shoulder a large part of the blame as well. Before you jump all over me, my Grandmother had Alzheimers and really such people really behave that way because they dont know any better. My gran was not allowed to go anywhere without someone with her, becuase when she left alone, we would not only struggle to find her, but as well the situations she got herself in were not safe.

Fortunatly in the community she lived in, she was well known, so my mum or uncle would get a call. A person with Alzheimers should NOT be left alone, it is a recipe for disaster as they behave like kids really becuase they simply dont know any better.

As for the behaviour of the cops and Shoprite, that is standard procedure when they catch someone shoplifting. Regardless of how old those people are. I'm sure some of you have seen it happen as well, but its usually some young kid or guy. And tbh, shoplifting should be discouraged under all circumstances, it is stealing. And that mentality we need to get rid of in our society.

It is just tragic that in this situation, a old sick person who SHOULD NOT have been alone in the first place, could not handle the stress that came with it and had a heart attack. The family that is asking these questions should ask themselves, where THEY were when all of this happened.

Did you even watch the segment?

Is pepperspraying someone who's clearly not resisting arrest, standard procedure?

Is denying someone who is clearly mentally ill and physically injured medical treatment, standard procedure? According to the law, even a suspected shoplifter is entitled to medical attention if they are injured in any way or shows signs of mental illness.

Is omitting something caught on CCTV from the police report also standard procedure?

The police also could not explain how a person held in a police cell sustained a serious head injury, which was subsequently reported as a superficial bruise.

 

[sox63]

Did you even watch the segment?

Is pepperspraying someone who's clearly not resisting arrest, standard procedure?

Is denying someone who is clearly mentally ill and physically injured medical treatment, standard procedure? According to the law, even a suspected shoplifter is entitled to medical attention if they are injured in any way or shows signs of mental illness.

Is omitting something caught on CCTV from the police report also standard procedure?

The police also could not explain how a person held in a police cell sustained a serious head injury, which was subsequently reported as a superficial bruise.

My post was meant to show that the family MUST take some responsibility for this event. South African cops are known to be very forceful in the way the act, and how are they supposed to know he has Alzheimers?

And I repeat, I said the family needs to take responsibility for this as much as the cops.

 

[Geriatrix]

South African cops are known to be very forceful in the way the act, and how are they supposed to know he has Alzheimers?

Forceful? They pepper sprayed and old man in the face when he didn't do anything!
And it was very clear that the old man had something mentally wrong with him. Or is commonsense a little to much to expect from our cops?

And I repeat, I said the family needs to take responsibility for this as much as the cops.

Yes I agree but those cops and guards should be convicted of manslaughter.

 

[JK8]

Did you even watch the segment?

Is pepperspraying someone who's clearly not resisting arrest, standard procedure?

Is denying someone who is clearly mentally ill and physically injured medical treatment, standard procedure? According to the law, even a suspected shoplifter is entitled to medical attention if they are injured in any way or shows signs of mental illness.

Is omitting something caught on CCTV from the police report also standard procedure?

The police also could not explain how a person held in a police cell sustained a serious head injury, which was subsequently reported as a superficial bruise.

I agree the Police brutality is uncalled for and a harsh realisation of the country we live in!

But I agree with Sox, the old man could have been anywhere, its common in some parts of the world where people with this disease are killed in traffic for walking across the street, getting mauled by dogs or just generally in the wrong place doing the wrong things.
Its unfortunate what happened to the old man, and his treatment was inhumane in my opinion. But some part of the blame should be on the son in law for allowing him to go pick up his car from the shop, alone.

 

[porn$tar]

The brutality of our police "service" is a harsh realisation because common sense fails them. Standard procedure is a cop-out.

 

[PCW]

Shoprite should have used common sense and dealt with it. The manager is to blame.

 

[DigitalSoldier]

And I repeat, I said the family needs to take responsibility for this as much as the cops.

True, but, my grandma also had Alzheimers and you can't always watch a person and they will go their own way.

Fortunatly in the community she lived in, she was well known, so my mum or uncle would get a call. A person with Alzheimers should NOT be left alone, it is a recipe for disaster as they behave like kids really becuase they simply dont know any better.

Not everyone is fortunate enough to live in a community like your gran...

Also from the article the cops knew about the mans mental condition and still treated him like that. Are cops not suppose to know that the one major requirement is intent.

 

[noxibox]

its the way of the country as of late...our police men are turning into little more than vigilante's with a badge, each trying to stamp their own brand of "justice", each with their own twisted reasons....

Actually going back to what they were like in the old days.

 

[greggpb]

I read Sox's post and agree with him on many points. My argument is this... Police are civil protectors.. once you are in police custody they are 100% responsible for you, being in police custody should be the safest place you could be in south Africa.

These cops need to be brought up on man slaughter.

The same goes for rape in prison cells and the like.. these are all the police's fault and they should be held liable..

Our police remind me very much of the police from the mobster movies in NY..

 

[Slaine73]

Yes maybe they shouldn't have left him alone.... But I am sorry you do not spray a sick 69 year old man who is not even resisting with pepper spray! Secondly the family after they found out that he was arrested went to the police and told them of his condition. Still the police did not get a doctor or anything.
Both the Police and Shoprite are responsible for his death and should be charged.

 

[slowcheetah]

Are cops not suppose to know that the one major requirement is intent.

Intent is for the court to figure out.

It was because of Shoprite that the guy got arrested, but it is purely the cops fault for letting him die in their custody. The amount of shoplifting being commited in just one shop per day is staggering. It's come to a point where the security guards will have you arrested if you even accidently walk out of a shop without paying, like for example, if you leave your dog food in the bottom compartment of the trolly and forget to pay for it. I've seen this happening.

What you pay a security guard at the door is what mentality you can expect. They won't care if you are mentally challenged, have Alzheimers or are a bona fide shoplifter.

Here's another method of shoplifting I've come across. Sorry for derailing the thread. Don't try this at home! Go into a shop and fill your trolley up. Pay for it and go out. Load into your boot, put your slip in your pocket and return to the shop. Now fill your whole trolley with the exact same goods and proceed to the exit. IF a security guard stops you, take out your slip and act all irritated. Congratulations, you've just doubled your grocceries for the month.

All I'm trying to say is that, with the amounts of shoplifting going on, managers and store owners expect their guards to get the police involved no matter what. The police are expected to act, no matter what. Perhaps only when the detective on duty sees your case he will let you go, but you're still going to have to appear in court the next day, where it will be thrown out if found silly.

If your 5yr old kid tries on new shoes and forgets to take them off before you leave you will be arrested. Be aware of what your kids do in a grocery store!

But these police officials in the story deserve whatever they've got coming to them.