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STS

STS

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mooks said:
So then where do you draw the line? For many the line is clearly and distinctly drawn long before incestuous relationships become optional. When, in your mind, does 'what they want' become immoral enough to outweigh their right to free choice?
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What does their freedom and love have to do with us? Likewise how can you justify telling somebody who they should love and be/live with.

A lot of things make people uncomfortable, simply because this makes us uncomfortable does not validate things that make other people uncomfortable now as immoral.

Anyway, how is it immoral? It's a victimless crime
 
azbob

azbob

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It's not like she grew up with her father. It's just the man whose semen fertilized her mother's ovary. Nothing wrong here. :twisted:
 
M

mooks

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STS said:
What does their freedom and love have to do with us? Likewise how can you justify telling somebody who they should love and be/live with.
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According to the article, they acknowledge that their affair has a strong basis in an unspoken genetic attraction (GSA). In my mind that immediately undermines the 'authenticity' (I use the term lightly) of the romantic relationship. It almost seems to be a misinterpretation of a biological connection. Irrespective of that, freedom of choice is no reason to live-and-let-live when it comes to potentially abusive relationships. In the case of this daughter, she grew up without a father. How do we know that it isnt a desperate need to fill the fatherless void that is adding fuel to this 'romantic' (again, used lightly) fire? How do we know that the father hasnt preyed on that? We cant, in the same way we cant know whether it is the real thing. The chance alone in this case is enough to put me off though.

STS said:
A lot of things make people uncomfortable, simply because this makes us uncomfortable does not validate things that make other people uncomfortable now as immoral.
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I think that this goes a bit beyond it being uncomfortable. The whole situation begs the question of 'when does it become ok?'. Many wuold argue that they are both consenting adults and can make their own choices. But when is a girl child or a boy child old enough to make that decision? In some countries the legal age of consent is 14. Are you comfortable with a father saying that he is in love with his 14yr old? And if you're not comfortable with it, why not? Is it moral for that father to penetrate his child? Is it ok for that child to have his child?

STS said:
Anyway, how is it immoral? It's a victimless crime
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If there is a genetically hindered child borne from it, then no it's not a victimless crime. If there is ANY child born from it, there is already a crime. How do you explain to your son 'hey, we have the same daddy! yay!'? The fact that there are biological risks involved in incetuous breeding should be used, at the very least, as a litmus test of it's place in society.

Not to mention the woman who one day looks at her son/daughter and cant quite figure out if the baby is her half brother or son. Is daddy daddy or grandad? There are victims in this scenario. So many victims.
 
STS

STS

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mooks said:
According to the article, they acknowledge that their affair has a strong basis in an unspoken genetic attraction (GSA). In my mind that immediately undermines the 'authenticity' (I use the term lightly) of the romantic relationship. It almost seems to be a misinterpretation of a biological connection. Irrespective of that, freedom of choice is no reason to live-and-let-live when it comes to potentially abusive relationships. In the case of this daughter, she grew up without a father. How do we know that it isnt a desperate need to fill the fatherless void that is adding fuel to this 'romantic' (again, used lightly) fire? How do we know that the father hasnt preyed on that? We cant, in the same way we cant know whether it is the real thing. The chance alone in this case is enough to put me off though.
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This has as much merit as homosexuals being born the way they are, it's just a way of feeling less guilty about the way they are. there is no doubt that attraction is there as neither of them would be happy or not laying a complaint. they both consent to this.

secondly, her psychological issues are hers and all her rights as an adult are in play here. there are plenty of men that "prey" on women, clients, patients and students. there are also once again a lot of stupid decisions people make, but it is still their decisions. what right does someone have to come along and tell you how to raise your kids, what kind of partner you should have or how your boss should treat you?

I think that this goes a bit beyond it being uncomfortable. The whole situation begs the question of 'when does it become ok?'. Many wuold argue that they are both consenting adults and can make their own choices. But when is a girl child or a boy child old enough to make that decision? In some countries the legal age for sexual activity is 14. Are you comfortable with a father saying that he is in love with his 14yr old? And if you're not comfortable with it, why not? Is it moral for that father to penetrate his child? Is it ok for that child to have his child?
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The age of consent is there for a reason, and that is to give the child time to develop and get an understanding of the world. If at 18 years old, that daughter says she loves her father and wants to be with him, who is to stop her if she is happy? People have all kinds of delusions that are tolerated by society, so if it is incest or religion, optimism or pessimism, hatred or love, what can we do except live their lives for them?

If there is a genetically hindered child borne from it, then no it's not a victimless crime. If there is ANY child born from it, there is already a crime. How do you explain to your son 'hey, we have the same daddy! yay!'? The fact that there are biological risks involved in incetuous breeding should be used, at the very least, as a litmus test of it's place in society.

Not to mention the woman who one day looks at her son/daughter and cant quite figure out if the baby is her half brother or son. Is daddy daddy or grandad? There are victims in this scenario. So many victims.
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there are genetically hindered kids born in the world anyway. incest IMPROVES the odds of genetic deficiencies but even this is rare unless it is continued from generation to generation. incest is performed on farms with cattle to IMPROVE genes.

i could say, how do you explain to a child that he has two daddies or two mommies? how do you explain to a child that his mommy is white but his daddy is black? i am from a family where my father was adopted by his sister when their parents died, and he today calls her sis and i call her gran. it doesn't matter what your family tree looks like so long as there is love there.

say that they met and never found out that they were father and daughter, and nobody around them knew either. would it still be an issue?
 
Sinbad

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Incest is not practised on farms to "improve" genes - rather, selectively, to emphasise good characteristics. You wouldn't allow the runts of two litters to breed to "improve" their genes.
 
STS

STS

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Sinbad said:
Yes, selectively. Like I said. That's not the same as general incest. Unless these two characters have some magnificent trait that is going to improve the overall quality of mankind if it's amplified? (Which I doubt?)
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Should we test them before they go ahead to find out? Why not do this for every individual then as plenty of defective genes are passed along in nature?
 
Sinbad

Sinbad

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STS said:
Should we test them before they go ahead to find out? Why not do this for every individual then as plenty of defective genes are passed along in nature?
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My personal belief is that yes, genetic tests AND also common sense tests before anyone is allowed to breed :p
 
STS

STS

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Sinbad said:
My personal belief is that yes, genetic tests AND also common sense tests before anyone is allowed to breed :p
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and freedom? :p i hope most people don't think freedom simply means doing everything i want them to do :p
 
Sinbad

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STS said:
and freedom? :p i hope most people don't think freedom simply means doing everything i want them to do :p
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With freedom comes responsibility.

If a person doesn't know the answer to "What will happen in a collision if my child is standing on my lap between me and the steering wheel" they should not be allowed to breed.
 
STS

STS

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Sinbad said:
With freedom comes responsibility.

If a person doesn't know the answer to "What will happen in a collision if my child is standing on my lap between me and the steering wheel" they should not be allowed to breed.
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With freedom comes responsibility to not infringe on your freedom. Are you going to tie their cocks into knots to stop them?
 
A

atomcrusher

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The opening post brings a new meaning to the expression "keeping it in the family"
 
Sinbad

Sinbad

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STS said:
With freedom comes responsibility to not infringe on your freedom. Are you going to tie their cocks into knots to stop them?
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INvoluntary reversible sterilisation at puberty.
Unsterilise when they are eligible to breed.

In case you haven't guessed, I have no faith in humanity.
 
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