911 Pentagon Video Released

[mooK]

Kilo39, don't quote him out of context, he said that peer reviewing in and of itself is meaningless.

Let me elaborate. If I write an essay, and I show it to someone else in my class, another student, i.e. One of my peers, that is a form of peer reviewing. Anyway, even if he thinks it's awesome, chances are I could still get a lousy grade.

What he said was that getting something peer-reviewed in and of itself does not automatically make anything an absolute truth, it's just a part of the process culminating in something getting published in a scientific journal, which you could compare to getting a grade in my, rather poor albeit, analogy.

 

[kilo39]

Kilo39, you may find this interesting, it's from the 2nd link Ignacio posted and it addresses some of the things you had a problem with.

The perimeter tube design of the WTC was highly redundant. It survived the loss of several exterior columns due to aircraft impact, but the ensuing fire led to other steel failures. Many structural engineers believe that the weak points—the limiting factors on design allowables—were the angle clips that held the floor joists between the columns on the perimeter wall and the core structure (see Figure 5). With a 700 Pa floor design allowable, each floor should have been able to support approximately 1,300 t beyond its own weight. The total weight of each tower was about 500,000 t.

As the joists on one or two of the most heavily burned floors gave way and the outer box columns began to bow outward, the floors above them also fell. The floor below (with its 1,300 t design capacity) could not support the roughly 45,000 t of ten floors (or more) above crashing down on these angle clips. This started the domino effect that caused the buildings to collapse within ten seconds, hitting bottom with an estimated speed of 200 km per hour. If it had been free fall, with no restraint, the collapse would have only taken eight seconds and would have impacted at 300 km/h.1 It has been suggested that it was fortunate that the WTC did not tip over onto other buildings surrounding the area. There are several points that should be made. First, the building is not solid; it is 95 percent air and, hence, can implode onto itself. Second, there is no lateral load, even the impact of a speeding aircraft, which is sufficient to move the center of gravity one hundred feet to the side such that it is not within the base footprint of the structure. Third, given the near free-fall collapse, there was insufficient time for portions to attain significant lateral velocity. To summarize all of these points, a 500,000 t structure has too much inertia to fall in any direction other than nearly straight down.

The full story is at http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html

This is so pitiful I will just refer you to the piece in bold: explain concrete turned to dust, steel melted (all of it) - puddles in the basement. Vapourised. In mid air. Unimaginable forces - like no other seen before. Pancake - well show me the pancake - if you could find anything afterwards that is. Pancake - I don't think so. If it was a pancake we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[mooK]

Concrete tends to turn to dust when hundreds of thousands of tons crashes down upon itself.

Show you the pancake? Are you screaming that like Jerry Maguire?

 

[ignacio]

Was going to comment on the links by ignacio, but why bother. They have been taken apart already, ripped to shreds and shot full of holes that it's just unbelievable that any "sane" person can still refer to them or say they make any sense.

Oh boy the hypocrisy continues.... no more whining like kookie eater about me not bothering to read any links?

 

[ignacio]

ignacio: Should we just hold our breaths until you come up with a legitimate published paper? Why do we have to trust published experts when we can just post a lot of fantasies ourselves, you ask? Well... unless you are an engineer or expert in the domain, I couldn't care what you come up, because

I am going to stop reading your posts - because they do not deserve credible attention. Excuse me - for the hundredth time - I am posting your information - your credible experts - your official report - your facts. And they have been torn into a thousand shreds - but still somehow in all this - you still manage to have a lip. Somewhat more respectful - but still a lip. You also seem to have an exceedingly short memory span - so one last time - just in case you forgot the paragraph before: your experts, your report - your peer reviewed papers - which after being shown they were cr#p - you then turn around and say "peer reviewing in and of itself is meaningless... "

A laugh a minute.

Cocaine's a helluva drug!

No, my boy, you may be starting with something that resembles my credible experts, but then you are adding your own facts, conjecture and interpretation. I am simply asking for a single published scientist who backs up any of your "theories".... otherwise I can only dismiss them as more kook rubbish.

 

[ignacio]

This is so pitiful I will just refer you to the piece in bold: explain concrete turned to dust, steel melted (all of it) - puddles in the basement. Vapourised. In mid air. Unimaginable forces - like no other seen before. Pancake - well show me the pancake - if you could find anything afterwards that is. Pancake - I don't think so. If it was a pancake we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Well... if YOU say so!

No, I take that back: which publication are you using to dismiss this idea? Let us know so we can all read the original, as opposed to your fantastical version of it.

 

[kilo39]

Concrete tends to turn to dust when hundreds of thousands of tons crashes down upon itself.

For you to make this statement shows that you have spent no time with the listed links - no time with the quoted information. You go out there and suck a piece of information off the web; the piece of information in itself makes no sense - reason being - it has been discussed and linked to - and shown for the farce it is. Now you expect me to give it some credence - when you obviously have not given anything prior credence - otherwise you wouldn't be posting the drivel.

Read the thread. Contribute something - that hasn't already been shown for its weakness and lack of coherence. Now - shall I go find the link and information - or could you possibly do just a little work??!

 

[ignacio]

Kilo39, don't quote him out of context, he said that peer reviewing in and of itself is meaningless.

Let me elaborate. If I write an essay, and I show it to someone else in my class, another student, i.e. One of my peers, that is a form of peer reviewing. Anyway, even if he thinks it's awesome, chances are I could still get a lousy grade.

What he said was that getting something peer-reviewed in and of itself does not automatically make anything an absolute truth, it's just a part of the process culminating in something getting published in a scientific journal, which you could compare to getting a grade in my, rather poor albeit, analogy.

Yup, mook, it is pretty close to what I am saying... moreover, when a real scientist (as opposed to a kook scientist) has his paper reviewed and accepted, the whole journal's (especially the reviewing scientists) validity and credibility is on trial, so they take this kind of stuff very seriously. In your analogy, if one of your peers said it was a great paper, and it turns out to be in fact be rubbish, they ALSO fail.

So, yes, not being published in a legitimate journal does cast serious doubt on the validity on the paper... scientists likely think the science in the paper is rubbish and do not want the journal's or their own reputation's tarnished by its publication.

So that is why our kook prof is only published on the internet - and might one day be published in a purpose-created 911 conspiracy book.

 

[mooK]

It appears that Kilo39 has a tendency to try find some kind of conspiracy whenever the oppertunity presents itself, I refer to the cocaine thread, where he claims that investigators put a spin on their conclusions to help the anti-drug cause even when the death they're investigating was not caused by a drug overdose.

 

[icyrus]

I'll never understand this. Could someone explain? Links, theories and "facts" aside - if the evidence that the "official story" is a lie is so sound and undeniable; if the official reports are so wrong that they have been "torn to shreds" then why is the debate consigned to internet message boards and conspiracy sites?

Why is there no public outcry? What isn't the government being help responsible for it? Why are countries that would love to show up the current US government not using this as a bargaining chip? Iran for example.

Why?

I understand that people will believe whatever they want, but such evidence, if its as sounds as the people backing the conspiracy theories make out, should hold up in court right? Why have there been no cases?

Why?

I'm not looking for a flame war or more links to "facts". I'm hoping someone can answer why this hasn't left the realm of conspiracy theory.

 

[ndlovu_f]

Hi All

I just bought myself a Nokia 9300i. I currently am getting the "Winsock Error 11001" when i try to access webmail.mtn.co.za. I used to access the sight from my 6600. Could this be a problem with the software or should i call MTN?
Pls assist.

 

[ignacio]

It appears that Kilo39 has a tendency to try find some kind of conspiracy whenever the oppertunity presents itself, I refer to the cocaine thread, where he claims that investigators put a spin on their conclusions to help the anti-drug cause even when the death they're investigating was not caused by a drug overdose.

He is the consummate anti-razor and accordingly never sees a simple explanation in anything.

 

[ignacio]

Hi All

I just bought myself a Nokia 9300i. I currently am getting the "Winsock Error 11001" when i try to access webmail.mtn.co.za. I used to access the sight from my 6600. Could this be a problem with the software or should i call MTN?
Pls assist.

I will leave this to the 2 kooks and kookie eater - has the makings of a conspiracy!

 

[Highflyer_GP]

Hi All

I just bought myself a Nokia 9300i. I currently am getting the "Winsock Error 11001" when i try to access webmail.mtn.co.za. I used to access the sight from my 6600. Could this be a problem with the software or should i call MTN?
Pls assist.

Consult with FEMA and NIST and they'll tell you that the official explanation is that you probably have a phone that causes the excess flow of electrons when trying to use GPRS which in turn caused the internal circuitry to melt and your address book/inbox to be erased in the process. Otherwise contact MTN, explain the problem and have them send the correct GPRS settings that match your phone.

 

[daysleeper]

talk about highjacking a thread!

 

[Prometheus]

Oh boy the hypocrisy continues.... no more whining like kookie eater about me not bothering to read any links?

FYI they are just full of the same garbage that we already took apart here. Now how would I know that if I did not read them? Since you decided to open your mouth again in ignorance I might as well comment on it now. The first one is nothing new and was taken apart in HF post which is why it sounded so familiar so you might as well get a new source since the second link stated things as impossible besides the fact that by eye-witness accounts they did happen and you can watch it on the tapes as well. We ripped those reports to shreds, pulverised them right here and you keep on posting them besides the "engineers" as you call them admitting to leaving out the accounts of what happened. Let me spell it out for you. A block of floors turning and toppling down and then suddenly being pulverised for no apparant reason versus your hypothetical domino effect. I'm still waiting for an explanation and until now the only that has fit into that is controlled explosions. Unless you have a link explaining that don't bother posting any further as I won't even bother reading the same regurgitated stuff AGAIN so that you can look like the blabbering idiot that you are.

 

[ignacio]

FYI they are just full of the same garbage that we already took apart here. Now how would I know that if I did not read them? Since you decided to open your mouth again in ignorance I might as well comment on it now. The first one is nothing new and was taken apart in HF post which is why it sounded so familiar so you might as well get a new source since the second link stated things as impossible besides the fact that by eye-witness accounts they did happen and you can watch it on the tapes as well. We ripped those reports to shreds, pulverised them right here and you keep on posting them besides the "engineers" as you call them admitting to leaving out the accounts of what happened. Let me spell it out for you. A block of floors turning and toppling down and then suddenly being pulverised for no apparant reason versus your hypothetical domino effect. I'm still waiting for an explanation and until now the only that has fit into that is controlled explosions. Unless you have a link explaining that don't bother posting any further as I won't even bother reading the same regurgitated stuff AGAIN so that you can look like the blabbering idiot that you are.

Did I miss the link to the published paper that backs this conjecture up? Or is this just more blabbering?

 

[Prometheus]

Did I miss the link to the published paper that backs this conjecture up? Or is this just more blabbering?

Read the eye-witness accounts since you believe them to be good enough for a court of law you MUST believe them.

 

[Prometheus]

Hi All

I just bought myself a Nokia 9300i. I currently am getting the "Winsock Error 11001" when i try to access webmail.mtn.co.za. I used to access the sight from my 6600. Could this be a problem with the software or should i call MTN?
Pls assist.

Consult with FEMA and NIST and they'll tell you that the official explanation is that you probably have a phone that causes the excess flow of electrons when trying to use GPRS which in turn caused the internal circuitry to melt and your address book/inbox to be erased in the process. Otherwise contact MTN, explain the problem and have them send the correct GPRS settings that match your phone.

Or matbe it's one of Xenu's space planes. I hear they use a kind of electron beam jet propulsion (EBJP) which could be causing interference with your signal. If you don't believe this to be the case in your area you should consult with MTN instead.

 

[ignacio]

Read the eye-witness accounts since you believe them to be good enough for a court of law you MUST believe them.

100% agreed - eye-witnesses could have observed the phenomenon you described - but only scientist eye-witnesses could try to scientifically explain it. So, which published scientist backs up your explanation of the phenomenon?

Seeing your Pentagon plane - on the other hand - doesn't require a scientific background to be understood: at least 26 witnesses saw a plane, not a missile...

See in both cases, you have eye-witnesses... good enough eye-witnesses for a court of law, but with the former, being an eye-witness doesn't mean you therefore comprehend what you saw. In the case of whether you saw a plane or a missile, what you saw is what you saw. Fairly simple stuff.

I am surpised to see you talking about eye-witnesses again, since you have conveniently ignored those 26.