911 Pentagon Video Released

*It's just ironic that we all wasted so much time in this thread when there are far more sinister things out there.*

and top of the morning to you Prometheus :D Nice to see someone is wide awake heheh...

CacklinToad
___________
Sherwood Community Policing Forum - Sector 3
Working WITH the SAPS against crime.
 
It's just ironic that we all wasted so much time in this thread when there are far more sinister things out there.
Considering the ramifications of the WTC attacks - the invasion of Afghanistan, the fact that the international community allowed the invasion of Iraq to go ahead, the fact that the "leader of the free world" (yeah right) stripped its citizens of many of their civil liberties - well, let's just say I consider it to be pretty fcuking sinister.
 
Xarog,

Ya - and the 160 billion in gold, and over 3 thousand ongoing investigations by the SEC destroyed (or was it 4 thousand?) And the put options and the insurance.

Anybody who watches Loose Change (2nd edition link above) - if a sceptic - will no longer be a sceptic. Anybody who watches Loose Change will not come back and call us cooks.

(and come on Prometheus - give us a clue!? - 2nd time I've seen you mention "something out there" - is this something we are going to see or is it just something to 'know'?)
 
kilo39 said:
(and come on Prometheus - give us a clue!? - 2nd time I've seen you mention "something out there" - is this something we are going to see or is it just something to 'know'?)
The last time I revealed something I got flamed for it. Besides it's nothing concrete. All I know for a fact is that what is happening now - even in the last century - has been predicted over 1,950 years ago. That gives me enough reason to believe the future predictions as well. There are other hidden predictions as well, but I don't want to discuss those as it will eventually lead to Moby Dick like I've seen in a lot of threads so far. :D If you want to know more then do a search on asteroids. You'll be surprised how many near misses there are, some of them only detected 3 days after they whizzed by. Makes one wonder how many go by undetected. As if that isn't enough there is also the odd statement by an agency that if they were to discover an extinction level event and were unable to do anything about it they would keep it all quiet. :rolleyes: What you don't know can't hurt you, right? Ask yourself about what else we're being lied to.
 
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Prom, all I can say is, don't believe everything u read on the net or you're gonna book yourself one-way ticket to insanity.
 
mooK: Ah, the old insanity defense. Judging by what has been going on in this forum lately everyone is a bit nuts it seems. Sources get quoted as absolutely accurate and when they are quoted back they are made out as garbage. No, I'm not harboring any animosity towards what happened earlier. I'm just stating what YOU are now doing after I made reference to information confirmed by your trusted authority NASA. ;)

http://nai.arc.nasa.gov/impact/news_detail.cfm?ID=122 (start at "(2) SECRECY ISSUE AND MEDIA REACTIONS" about half way through) No doubt it was exagerated by the media as always, but the mere fact that it was even mentioned is revolting. It seems that it's more a matter of practicality however. No one believes that it would be possible to hide the truth amidst a whole community of astronomers. What it does shed light on is that this is a stance that is actually considered very often when it comes to what the public should know and there are indeed some things that governments and other organisations can keep secret.
 
Thanks Prometheus - Yes - there is a wayward rock out there right now (saw this reported a month or two back.) There is also the case if something is approaching headon (has no apparent movement) then we wouldn't even see it. As to previous discussions - don't think it so much that most are irreligious or atheist - more a case of the basis and concept of religion (and evolution!?!) There is one very big prediction coming up - the aztec calender runs out soon, the end of ages - december 2011 (I probably have the details wrong - don't feel like a search right now - but big and upcoming) - as to the rest - maybe we should have a predictions thread!?!

More on topic - happened to look up Larry Silverstein on wikipedia - (him mentioned in Loose Change) - and came across this quote:

Silverstein was quoted in a 2002 PBS documentary America Rebuilds:

I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse.[


Note the comment - pull it. How does a fire brigade "pull" a building without pre-laying explosives - not possible - and the depth of the lie.

Another thing with Loose Change - gives you a real feel for events of the day - and the commentary. The evidence is quite clear!! Watch the video!
 
Prometheus said:
mooK: Ah, the old insanity defense. Judging by what has been going on in this forum lately everyone is a bit nuts it seems. Sources get quoted as absolutely accurate and when they are quoted back they are made out as garbage.
Oh you mean the absolutely accurate lie about liquified steel you and Kilo like to repeat? Really - you guys were called on something you couldn't back up, so just drop it already...and move on with your other fantasies. *rolls eyes*
 
mooK said:
Prom, all I can say is, don't believe everything u read on the net or you're gonna book yourself one-way ticket to insanity.
I think the bottom line with this is that some people find reality complicated, challenging, difficult and fascinating enough - and some people like to spice up reality with fantasy. I prefer to concentrate on reality - life is too short to spend most of it caught up in fallacies and fantasies that have no direct bearing whatsoever on what happens in your life day to day.
 
Oh you mean the absolutely accurate lie about liquified steel you and Kilo like to repeat? Really - you guys were called on something you couldn't back up, so just drop it already...and move on with your other fantasies. *rolls eyes*
liquified = molten

molten = reduced to a 'run' state = liquified

Dictionery:
molten = "Made liquid by heat; melted: molten lead"

(A past participle of melt)

Dictionery:
liquify = To cause to become liquid, especially: To melt (a solid) by heating, To condense (a gas) by cooling.

ignacio: what part of this don't you understand?

Now - perhaps we can go to your esteemed colleagues at MIT and find out how many times they use the word 'molten' - or shall we just stick with liquify?!?

:rolleyes:
 
kilo39 said:
liquified = molten

molten = reduced to a 'run' state = liquified

Dictionery:
molten = "Made liquid by heat; melted: molten lead"

(A past participle of melt)

Dictionery:
liquify = To cause to become liquid, especially: To melt (a solid) by heating, To condense (a gas) by cooling.

ignacio: what part of this don't you understand?

Now - perhaps we can go to your esteemed colleagues at MIT and find out how many times they use the word 'molten' - or shall we just stick with liquify?!?

:rolleyes:
ok - I will humour you: find anywhere in the official reports ( wtc.nist.gov) that they talk about liquified steel.

As a bonus point, show me where in the non-official research (from MIT and others) they talk about liquified steel.

Please, direct quotes and links. Thank you.
 
Softened, weakened is close enough for me - yah right, 110 stories, 200 000 tons - softened - collapsed - vapour - nothing left (molten steel in the basement for weeks.)

Why are you so adamant on the 'official' story - when it has holes like "swiss cheese?" Me wonders if you've actually watched "Loose Change" - if you did you would be less gung-ho about the official tale.

Will 'troll' back through the links perhaps - watch the video - then lets talk about molten steel - Or how about concrete turned to dust - or the vapourised jet at the pentagon.

How can you believe the official tale - when it is so blatantly false?
 
kilo39 said:
Softened, weakened is close enough for me - yah right, 110 stories, 200 000 tons - softened - collapsed - vapour - nothing left (molten steel in the basement for weeks.)

Why are you so adamant on the 'official' story - when it has holes like "swiss cheese?" Me wonders if you've actually watched "Loose Change" - if you did you would be less gung-ho about the official tale.

Will 'troll' back through the links perhaps - watch the video - then lets talk about molten steel - Or how about concrete turned to dust - or the vapourised jet at the pentagon.

How can you believe the official tale - when it is so blatantly false?
Sorry - I did not ask for more conjecture, just "official" links to liquefied steel.

Softened, weakened
IS NOT liquefied (is close enough for me - LOL - are you serious?)

molten steel in the basement for weeks Proof? Link?

I would like to stick to this one theme of "liquefied steel" - because it is at the heart of your and Prom's credibility because we as readers want to know:
a. will you make stuff up?
b. will you stick to defending made up stuff even when you are SHOWN that it is made up?
We are all dying to know.
 
In the meantime - let's look at this again:

Materials science professors Ronald R. Biederman and Richard D. Sisson Jr. confirmed the presence of eutectic formations by examining steel samples under optical and scanning electron microscopes. A preliminary report was published in JOM, the journal of the Minerals, Metals & Materials Society. A more detailed analysis comprises Appendix C of the FEMA report. The New York Times called these findings "perhaps the deepest mystery uncovered in the investigation." The significance of the work on a sample from Building 7 and a structural column from one of the twin towers becomes apparent only when one sees these heavy chunks of damaged metal.

A one-inch column has been reduced to half-inch thickness. Its edges--which are curled like a paper scroll--have been thinned to almost razor sharpness. Gaping holes--some larger than a silver dollar--let light shine through a formerly solid steel flange. This Swiss cheese appearance shocked all of the fire-wise professors, who expected to see distortion and bending--but not holes.

A eutectic compound is a mixture of two or more substances that melts at the lowest temperature of any mixture of its components. Blacksmiths took advantage of this property by welding over fires of sulfur-rich charcoal, which lowers the melting point of iron. In the World Trade Center fire, the presence of oxygen, sulfur and heat caused iron oxide and iron sulfide to form at the surface of structural steel members. This liquid slag corroded through intergranular channels into the body of the metal, causing severe erosion and a loss of structural integrity.

"The important questions," says Biederman, "are how much sulfur do you need, and where did it come from? The answer could be as simple--and this is scary- as acid rain."

Have environmental pollutants increased the potential for eutectic reactions? "We may have just the inherent conditions in the atmosphere so that a lot of water on a burning building will form sulfuric acid, hydrogen sulfide or hydroxides, and start the eutectic process as the steel heats up," Biederman says. He notes that the sulfur could also have come from contents of the burning buildings, such as rubber or plastics. Another possible culprit is ocean salts, such as sodium sulfate, which is known to catalyze sulfidation reactions on turbine blades of jet engines. "All of these things have to be explored," he says.

From a building-safety point of view, the critical question is: Did the eutectic mixture form before the buildings collapsed, or later, as the remains smoldered on the ground. "We have no idea," admits Sisson. "To answer that, we would need to recreate those fires in the FPE labs, and burn fresh steel of known composition for the right time period, with the right environment." He hopes to have the opportunity to collaborate on thermodynamically controlled studies, and to observe the effects of adding sulfur, copper and other elements. The most important lesson, Sisson and Biederman stress, is that fail-safe sprinkler systems are essential to prevent steel from reaching even 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit, because phase changes at the 1,300-degree mark compromise a structure's load-bearing capacity.

The FEMA report calls for further metallurgic investigations, and Barnett, Biederman and Sisson hope that WPI will obtain NIST funding and access to more samples.
http://www.wpi.edu/News/Transformations/2002Spring/steel.html

bwahahah - so acid rain made the towers fall down!? (They want to do more tests - but the official models were truncated - my oh my.)

The links are there - in this thread - to the photos of the molten steel. The problem with you ignacio - you don't believe the evidence of photos or videos - the direct connect between your eyes, brain and common sense.

Watch the video - the head of the company that cleared the site - says quite cleary - molten steel in the basement. The photos are there on this thread. You know this - so don't obsecrate the issue - and tell us we made it up. You still haven't answered the question - did you watch the video (or is that too close to your sensitivities?)
 
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kilo39 said:
In the meantime - let's look at this again:
No - let's not. A lot of words there - but nothing about liquefied steel. Sure, I bet you can post endlessly on the topic - but I am asking for something rather simple and specific: links to your assertion that the official reports mentioned liquefied steel. Not a very challenging request... well, unless you made it up, that is.
 
ignacio said:
Oh you mean the absolutely accurate lie about liquified steel you and Kilo like to repeat? Really - you guys were called on something you couldn't back up, so just drop it already...and move on with your other fantasies. *rolls eyes*
Hey, that's not very fair. As you can see I have dropped it. There is no difference between liquify and molten. Liquified was used in reference to the debunkers here which used it whenever there wasn't an explanation for something like the wings of an aeroplane disappearing. As for the molten metal found I'm still waiting for an explanation for that from anybody. The plane - which is probably the only large thing made from aluminum - was crashed right into the middle of the building so it couldn't have been that which was running down the side of the building. The only other metal which was present in large quantity was the steel that the building was constructed from. But since I can't find any official report mentioning steel specifically I won't automatically make the assumption that it was steel running down the side of the building. So if you go back to my posts you will see that I have dropped the 'liquified steel' statement because there is no corroborating evidence for that.
 
Prometheus said:
Hey, that's not very fair. As you can see I have dropped it. There is no difference between liquify and molten. Liquified was used in reference to the debunkers here which used it whenever there wasn't an explanation for something like the wings of an aeroplane disappearing. As for the molten metal found I'm still waiting for an explanation for that from anybody. The plane - which is probably the only large thing made from aluminum - was crashed right into the middle of the building so it couldn't have been that which was running down the side of the building. The only other metal which was present in large quantity was the steel that the building was constructed from. But since I can't find any official report mentioning steel specifically I won't automatically make the assumption that it was steel running down the side of the building. So if you go back to my posts you will see that I have dropped the 'liquified steel' statement because there is no corroborating evidence for that.
ok - fair enough - you haven't furthered this since I questioned it - looks like kilo is still on the liquified steel bandwagon... molten metal is an interesting thing that needs to be researched...
 
ok - fair enough - you haven't furthered this since I questioned it - looks like kilo is still on the liquified steel bandwagon... molten metal is an interesting thing that needs to be researched...
ignacio - I thought we agree molten and liquified = the same thing? Also - if we go back to my original statement "amazing how many things liquified on 911, WTC, Flight 93 and the pentagon" - then we should agree that my use of the word is valid in terms of 911.

Subsequent modeling suggests that in the north tower the internal trusses supporting the building's concrete floors failed as a result of heat-induced warping[14]. This would have placed additional stress on the bunched core columns which themselves were losing integrity from both impact damage and heat. NIST report.

"warping" = softened = molten = liquify

molten steel = http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
 
kilo39 said:
Thanks Prometheus - Yes - there is a wayward rock out there right now (saw this reported a month or two back.) There is also the case if something is approaching headon (has no apparent movement) then we wouldn't even see it. As to previous discussions - don't think it so much that most are irreligious or atheist - more a case of the basis and concept of religion (and evolution!?!) There is one very big prediction coming up - the aztec calender runs out soon, the end of ages - december 2011 (I probably have the details wrong - don't feel like a search right now - but big and upcoming) - as to the rest - maybe we should have a predictions thread!?!
Just a few corrections here (which you probably know). There are always rocks out there approaching us. When an asteroid is first discovered it has about a 50% chance of hitting us, but after a few days or sometimes even hours it gets reduced to 0.1% before they eventually find out that the chance is actually 0%. So crying wolf whenever something is discovered isn't a good way to go about things either.

I think by approaching head-on you mean approaching from the direction of the sun. We see space objects by the light that they reflect from the sun. When they approach from the sun there is no light reflected and they can't be seen by normal telescopes. Anything which shows no apparant movement is in fact approaching head-on as in heading for a collision course.

The prediction coming up is actually the planet Nibiru approaching. Nibiru is said to have a cycle of 3,600 or 10,500 years by Sumerian texts. It's possible that 3,600 is a misinterpretation and actually a calculation. 10,500 does correspond to the orbit of Sedna which is smaller than Pluto as described in Sumerian texts. It's the Sumerian calendar which runs out on 22 Dec 2012. Their calendar was given to them by their god and stretches across about 5,000 years. It was assumed that this was the planet Nibiru approaching, but there could also be other objects out there as the Oort cloud is now believed to be nearer than thought. The statement somewhere that all gravitional deviations has been accounted for is not entirely correct as the discovery of Sedna clearly shows us. Sedna is not a planet and neither is Pluto which is actually a Kuiper belt object.
More on topic - happened to look up Larry Silverstein on wikipedia - (him mentioned in Loose Change) - and came across this quote:

Silverstein was quoted in a 2002 PBS documentary America Rebuilds:

I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse.[


Note the comment - pull it. How does a fire brigade "pull" a building without pre-laying explosives - not possible - and the depth of the lie.

Another thing with Loose Change - gives you a real feel for events of the day - and the commentary. The evidence is quite clear!! Watch the video!
That is just media sensationalism again. What he was probably referring to is that they decided to pull out. I remember they made that decision because they knew that it was a losing battle and the risk to the firemen was too great. Shortly after they made the decision the buildings collapsed so it was clearly the right decision. That wiki article should be edited. It's open to misinterpretation as it stands. I would also like to know if those were his exact words.
 
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kilo39 said:
ignacio - I thought we agree molten and liquified = the same thing? Also - if we go back to my original statement "amazing how many things liquified on 911, WTC, Flight 93 and the pentagon" - then we should agree that my use of the word is valid in terms of 911.

Subsequent modeling suggests that in the north tower the internal trusses supporting the building's concrete floors failed as a result of heat-induced warping[14]. This would have placed additional stress on the bunched core columns which themselves were losing integrity from both impact damage and heat. NIST report.

"warping" = softened = molten = liquify

molten steel = http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html

Whether I agreed with it or not (which I didn't), where do you see liquefied OR molten steel?

What has warping got to do with liquefy? This is your addition. Warping can simply be explained by that fact that structural steel begins to soften around 425°C and loses about half of its strength at 650°C. See - NO liquefaction needed!

LOL - your molten steel link is NOT to the official report (like I needed to tell you that). I am challenging your assertion that liquefied steel is anywhere in the official report. So - as Prometheus has been able to accept and move past this - I would suggest you too, also accept this fact and move on.
 
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