911 Pentagon Video Released

[kilo39]

So basically - they don't know.... as with other SCIENTISTS and not internet kooks, they have some hypotheses to test.... wildly enough, nuclear bombs didn't enter into the equation. Why is that? - because they represent a totally illogical leap that only conspiracy theorists would take.

No ignacio - they are now looking on a structural level - which is a long way from accounting for why 2 of the most highly engineered buildings collapsed into slag. To remind you:

Boeing 767-200ER: Maximum Fuel Capacity, 23980 US gal

Quantities of steel (structural steelwork in one tower)
total: 78,000 tonnes

1 gallon of fuel = melted 3+ tons of steel

Jet Fuel = Ignition Point = 425°C
Steel smelter = 1700°C

because phase changes at the 1,300-degree mark compromise a structure's load-bearing capacity

NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F (1000°C), high enough to cause structural failure.

Twin Towers = 47 minutes = 24000 gallons = 78000tons of steel

and jet-aircraft engines typically use fuels with higher flash points, which are less flammable and therefore safer to transport and handle

The jet fuel probably burned out in less than 10 minutes; what did burn over the next hour, or hour and a half, was much of the contents of the buildings, according to the lead investigator of the NIST investigation. (desks, drapes, and papers!) - (shall I find the quote??!!)

24000 gallons = slagheap = 47 minutes.

Ah - a tear in the fabric of reality - according to the debunkers.

 

[Highflyer_GP]

Hey dumbass there's no need to become vulgar. If you have nothing to say, then don't resort to flaming. What I'm saying is you believe as you will, others will believe as they will. If you can't understand that then just STFU please.

 

[ignacio]

No ignacio - they are now looking on a structural level - which is a long way from accounting for why 2 of the most highly engineered buildings collapsed into slag. To remind you:

NO don't remind me - let's stick to one supporting link YOU provided at a time... the rest of your post has NOTHING to do with the link your provided. So, again, does the link you provided add any credence at all to your nuclear weapon theory, without your added conjecture and speculation? Yes or no?

 

[ignacio]

Hey dumbass there's no need to become vulgar. If you have nothing to say, then don't resort to flaming. What I'm saying is you believe as you will, others will believe as they will. If you can't understand that then just STFU please.

Yes... so abbreviations like FFS are not vulgar because they don't spell out the words. So, let's see: you are an idiotic, delusional, time-wasting hypocrite. Congrats.

 

[icyrus]

You realize, ofcourse, that the fires didn't have to melt all the steel in the building. Just weaken enough for 1 of the floors to give way.

All this back and forth is indeed interesting and the theories cleverly crafted, but in the end there are many many independent engineers and scientists in the world, many who have no love for the US government and yet these theories are confined to internet websites and messageboards.

If the official story is so unbelievable, so far from reality, why has no-one called the US government on it at official levels? That sort of info would really strengthen your bargaining point with the US wouldn't it?

 

[mooK]

Bravo Igancio, you're a master flamer

Great post above!

 

[Highflyer_GP]

If you are not getting the point then what do you expect? FFS wasn't aimed directly at you, it's a figure of speech. "you're an idiot", "you blithering idiot" etc. are direct attacks. It seems like you're trying to impose your views on others, instead of letting them have a mind of their own. Play the game, not the man. If you can't accept that there will be people with views that differ to your own, then I will say it again - just Shut The Fuck Up please.

 

[mooK]

If people just accepted that others have their views that should be left alone the world would be a very different place.

For one, there wouldn't really be any kind of religion as we know it today, but on the other hand we wouldn't have progressed very far scientifically either.

It's by the expression of our views and the natural instinct of ours to try get others to consider them that we have progressed as a species.

 

[ignacio]

"you're an idiot", "you blithering idiot" etc. are direct attacks.

The shoe appears to fit very comfortably.

It seems like you're trying to impose your views on others, instead of letting them have a mind of their own.

I think we are trying to evaluate facts and theories here... if we are trying to evaluate whatever crazy fantasies we can make up - I concede and you guys win. Not even a fair competition.

Highflyer and Newton have a chat:
Newton: Every particle of matter in the universe attracts every other particle with a force that is directly proportional to the product of the masses of the particles and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them.
Highflyer: STFU, stop imposing your views on me! They are attracted because of magic fairy dust!

Play the game, not the man.

In your case the game was the man, because, again, unlike the others you added NOTHING - just told me to look at LGs posts and "find the truth". Try to add something worthwhile to the discussion and I will beat you down on that level as well.

 

[Highflyer_GP]

If people just accepted that others have their views that should be left alone the world would be a very different place.

For one, there wouldn't really be any kind of religion as we know it today, but on the other hand we wouldn't have progressed very far scientifically either.

It's by the expression of our views and the natural instinct of ours to try get others to consider them that we have progressed as a species.

Exactly my point. The point of a discussion is not only to try and prove how right you are and how wrong somebody else is, it's to also try and learn things from the opposing party seeing it from their point of view. Science hasn't progressed very far because of religious policies of condemnation until recent times (of which I mean in the last two to three hundred years) where we live in a more open society, as opposed to a more oppressed one.

Allowing freedom of expression allows more progress in that their are more possibilities and more angles to look at things. By trying to impose one's own point of view as correct and everything else as garbage is not too dissimilar to what the church has been guilty of throughout the dark ages.

 

[mooK]

Do you have a split personality?

 

[ignacio]

Exactly my point. The point of a discussion is not only to try and prove how right you are and how wrong somebody else is, it's to also try and learn things from the opposing party seeing it from their point of view. Science hasn't progressed very far because of religious policies of condemnation until recent times (of which I mean in the last two to three hundred years) where we live in a more open society, as opposed to a more oppressed one.

Allowing freedom of expression allows more progress in that their are more possibilities and more angles to look at things. By trying to impose one's own point of view as correct and everything else as garbage is not too dissimilar to what the church has been guilty of throughout the dark ages.

Right but we are not discussing opinions or emotions here - were are discussing what is scientifically proveable. So, most scientists don't see nuclear weapon involvement - it doesn't even get the slightest mention anywhere credible - but a .fi site does... and according to your "evaluate opposing parties" viewpoint, we should really test out this nuclear wepaon hypothesis before we can laugh it off, because somehow scientists should involve themselves in disproving the theories of kooks as opposed to working with facts, logic and proofs.

 

[ignacio]

Do you have a split personality?

I see your point: he seems to think that religion is a hoax or conspiracy, but nuclear bombing of WTC is science.

 

[mooK]

That wasn't really my point exactly, what I said was based more on his overall tone in that post compared to previous ones.

 

[Highflyer_GP]

The shoe appears to fit very comfortably.
I think we are trying to evaluate facts and theories here... if we are trying to evaluate whatever crazy fantasies we can make up - I concede and you guys win. Not even a fair competition.

Highflyer and Newton have a chat:
Newton: Every particle of matter in the universe attracts every other particle with a force that is directly proportional to the product of the masses of the particles and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them.
Highflyer: STFU, stop imposing your views on me! They are attracted because of magic fairy dust!

The difference is Newton proved his theories. You seem to stick by a theory just because an "expert" says so, despite anything provided by kilo39 regarding the melting point of steel, the size of the hole made in the pentagon by a supposed 757, the lack of wreckage, the angle of attack etc.

In your case the game was the man, because, again, unlike the others you added NOTHING - just told me to look at LGs posts and "find the truth". Try to add something worthwhile to the discussion and I will beat you down on that level as well.

There you go seeing only what you want to see again. I referred you to LG's thread because everything being discussed here has already been discussed there. Read the title and first post of this thread, it's not about the issue being a conspiracy or not, it's about the tape of the Pentagon being made officially available. Using your reasoning I can also say that a discussion between Newton and Ignacio went something like this:
Newton: Every particle of matter in the universe attracts every other particle with a force that is directly proportional to the product of the masses of the particles and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them.
Ignacio:That's nonsense, it's too much for me to comprehend, I'm not going to try and understand that garbage because it goes against what I regard as the truth, let's meet again another day and discuss it again.
2 days later:
Newton: Every particle of matter in the universe attracts every other particle with a force that is directly proportional to the product of the masses of the particles and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them.
Ignacio: That's nonsense, it's too much for me to comprehend, I'm not going to try and understand that garbage because it goes against what I regard as the truth, let's meet again another day and discuss it again.

You're basically discussing an issue that's already been discussed in another thread. This thread was about the contents of tape being made available to the public. I had nothing to add on that issue so I didn't. If you want to discuss whether the official explanation of 9/11 is true or not then discuss it in the other thread, the sole purpose of which exists to discuss just that.

EDIT: FYI I never agreed on anything regarding a nuclear bombing of the WTC so please don't quote me as saying so. I've always took a neutral stance when it came to whether this is a conspiracy or not, because there's 3 sides to every story. I'm not standing up for either you nor kilo39, just referring you to a thread which was created to discuss precisely this issue.

 

[ignacio]

I had nothing to add on that issue so I didn't.

Finally, you admit to adding nothing: so don't complain about me playing the man....

If you want to discuss whether the official explanation of 9/11 is true or not then discuss it in the other thread, the sole purpose of which exists to discuss just that.

Yeah - so what? This thread led to where we are. Big deal.


You haven't been paying attention until now, this is how it really would go down:
Highflyer, Ignacio and Newton have a chat:
Newton: Every particle of matter in the universe attracts every other particle with a force that is directly proportional to the product of the masses of the particles and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them.
Highflyer: STFU, stop imposing your views on me! They are attracted because of magic fairy dust!
Ignacio: I think I will side with Newton, because he is a highly intelligent, well-educated, well-respected scientist. And magic fairy dust sounds like something highflyer just made up.
Highflyer: Who asked you? Shouldn't you be talking somewhere else?

 

[Highflyer_GP]

Finally, you admit to adding nothing: so don't complain about me playing the man....

I had nothing to comment on the original topic of the tape being made publically available. Again stop quoting me out of context just so that you can have a bit of flaming fun.

Yeah - so what? This thread led to where we are. Big deal.

That's called derailing a thread, so yes it is a big deal. You're now disussing something which has already been discussed before.

 

[ignacio]

That's called derailing a thread, so yes it is a big deal. You're now disussing something which has already been discussed before.

2nd post of this thread - well before I arrived:

Also the hole that was created by impact is barely large enough for a full size man to pass through. There's no way that a hole that small could have been created by a 757

Does your hypocrisy even register any more?

 

[Highflyer_GP]

2nd post of this thread - well before I arrived:
Does your hypocrisy even register any more?

That was based on the video footage provided in the first post and has absolutely nothing to do with the WTC, or nuclear weapons, or steel structures, or whatever else has been discussed in the rest of the thread. I stated my opinion based on the footage which deals with the Pentagon and added nothing since. Or do you still not get it? Anyway I'm not going to derail this guys thread any further, so if you wish to do so then go ahead.

 

[ignacio]

That was based on the video footage provided in the first post and has absolutely nothing to do with the WTC, or nuclear weapons, or steel structures, or whatever else has been discussed in the rest of the thread. I stated my opinion based on the footage which deals with the Pentagon and added nothing since. Or do you still not get it? Anyway I'm not going to derail this guys thread any further, so if you wish to do so then go ahead.

hmmm - guess it doesn't register: your whole point in the last few posts was that 911 conspiracies had all been discussed in LGs thread before and it should be taken there... but here we see you jumping on this thread without this consideration. I guess I need to spell these things out.