A Canadian province is about to start trialling universal basic income

garp said:
Tsk. Tsk. All this pointless bickering when all we have to do is bookmark this thread and wait as we watch the Ontario economy implode as the producers flee and the entitled freeloaders invade. See y'all in 5-10 yrs, it's going to be fun :)
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quoted for reference :)
 
garp said:
Tsk. Tsk. All this pointless bickering when all we have to do is bookmark this thread and wait as we watch the Ontario economy implode as the producers flee and the entitled freeloaders invade. See y'all in 5-10 yrs, it's going to be fun :)
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This is nothing like Atlas Shrugged. In an ideal world, we need a basic income to avoid poverty. It's in everyone's best interests to not have impoverished people, as slums and crime reduce everyone's standard of living. Unfortunately it only works in a country with decent employment and education, as a minority cannot sustain the free incomes of a majority (although the ANC would beg to differ).

It doesn't even need to be a big additional expense for government, but rather mostly a replacement of existing but ineffective social welfare systems.
 
Arthur said:
On a recent flight out of Dallas I sat next to a cloud/mobile/software business owner and entrepreneur from Asia. He had a year earlier launched his business in the USA, and it was "explodingly successful" he said.

I asked him when he plans to take his obviously successful business to Europe, and he said "Never". Why? "Because Europeans don't like to work. They're soft, with a sense of entitlement, and that will kill any business."
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That's an incredibly dumb thing to say, and just as idiotic for you to believe it.

You have no idea
 
allthatweare said:
That's an incredibly dumb thing to say, and just as idiotic for you to believe it.

You have no idea
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Even more interesting that you can't parse it. No interest on your side why this sort of perception exists in a random Asian tech entrepreneur - even if he's the only one. No interest or apparent ability in you or Randhir to see that sometimes ordinary everyday events can disclose much larger issues... You're apparently the type of person who won't engage in a conversation on anything but your own terms. You have no interest in why he thinks as he does. This is entirely consistent. You, of course, have superior True Knowledge, and so your modus doubtless would be tell him he's wrong, and try to disabuse him, argue with him, tell him how dumb he is. For you the only interesting views are the ones that are the same as yours, and of course everyone else has no idea. That is the way of self-righteous prigs for whom everything is black and white, and of course everybody needs to know you're on the Right Side.

I'm happy to be idiotic in your eyes. Thanks for the compliment.
 
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allthatweare said:
That's an incredibly dumb thing to say, and just as idiotic for you to believe it.

You have no idea
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It never happened. You're new here so maybe aren't familiar with Arthur's MO. He'll even stoop to making up a fictional character that spouts off his own personal ideology, which apparently now also includes (among other amusing things) that "Europeans don't like to work".

Of course, from other dealings with Arthur, we could say this theory could have been something he saw on a news channel in passing that he now believes without bothering to actually investigate.

The massively hilariously irony is that he can say something like "Europeans don't like to work", then when you call him out on making such a ridiculous generalisation, he'll accuse you of being a "self-righteous prig for whom everything is black and white".

It's all quite a to-do.
 
garp said:
Tsk. Tsk. All this pointless bickering when all we have to do is bookmark this thread and wait as we watch the Ontario economy implode as the producers flee and the entitled freeloaders invade. See y'all in 5-10 yrs, it's going to be fun :)
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And when that doesn't happen (like it hasn't happened anywhere this has been tried), what'll you do then?
 
OrbitalDawn said:
And when that doesn't happen (like it hasn't happened anywhere this has been tried), what'll you do then?
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Has it ever really been tested?

How about some small country with lots of extra money give it a try. Try it nationally for 4 years. If it starts to fail then trash it. If it doesn't, then you can extend it for another 4 years. At that time it will no longer feel *temporary*, and we can see whether it really works, and what impact it has on the economy, employment rates etc. of a country. If it works then the world needs to know about it, because it could be a game changer, but you need a proper trial. Other first world countries could even pitch in some money on that trial, because they stand to benefit from looking at the results. Based on whether it works or not, they might implement it, or they might stop flirting with the idea and spending money on their own useless mini trials.
 
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Randhir said:
It never happened. You're new here so maybe aren't familiar with Arthur's MO. He'll even stoop to making up a fictional character that spouts off his own personal ideology, which apparently now also includes (among other amusing things) that "Europeans don't like to work".

Of course, from other dealings with Arthur, we could say this theory could have been something he saw on a news channel in passing that he now believes without bothering to actually investigate.

The massively hilariously irony is that he can say something like "Europeans don't like to work", then when you call him out on making such a ridiculous generalisation, he'll accuse you of being a "self-righteous prig for whom everything is black and white".

It's all quite a to-do.
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PM me and I'll send you his name and email. You are free to contact him. I won't our it here for obvious reasons.
 
Arthur said:
PM me and I'll send you his name and email. You are free to contact him. I won't our it here for obvious reasons.
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I'm not sure if you realise this, but you can PM me without me PM'ing you.
 
TriGuN said:
How about some small country with lots of extra money give it a try.
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If I'm not mistaken, Switzerland already does something similar, but I can't remember what the programme is called, or how it is structured.
 
Randhir said:
I'm not sure if you realise this, but you can PM me without me PM'ing you.
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You are the one fixated on this, not me. I've already indulged your demand to post flight and business card. Yet you persist in your puerile pejoratives. It speaks volumes that you openly persist in calling me a liar when you cannot possibly know. You are wrong.

Your personal attacks and outrageous calumnies must stop. You do your case no good. You are manifestly in breach of good faith and good manners. I have restrained myself from reciprocating. But I will say that you are a pitiable and pathetic exponent of your views, Rhandir. Of course you can console yourself with the wonderful self-assurance that being a calumniator isn't nearly as bad as being a liar, eh.

Unlike you, I believe in final justice. And on that day I will plead for you.
 
Neoprod said:
Cough...DSTV. Perfect example of free market economics stifling competition...Multichoice has the biggest pocketbook so they effectively own the pay TV market.
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Ignoring the fact that guavament licensing created the Monochoice monopoly and ditto for the Vodascum/EMpTyN duopoly. The problem is that the debate is generally between the pro-regulation for regulations sake, Left and the Free Market as ordained by Jeebus, Right. You very rarely see anyone have a balanced conversation about the role of guavament. Unless guavament wants to hack your iPhone. then everyone swaps sides because the left are embarrassed by their cock pics and the right thinks guavament will never hack their phones.
 
Arthur said:
You are the one fixated on this, not me. I've already indulged your demand to post flight and business card. Yet you persist in your puerile pejoratives. It speaks volumes that you openly persist in calling me a liar when you cannot possibly know. You are wrong.

Your personal attacks and outrageous calumnies must stop. You do your case no good. You are manifestly in breach of good faith and good manners. I have restrained myself from reciprocating. But I will say that you are a pitiable and pathetic exponent of your views, Rhandir. Of course you can console yourself with the wonderful self-assurance that being a calumniator isn't nearly as bad as being a liar, eh.

Unlike you, I believe in final justice. And on that day I will plead for you.
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Still waiting on that PM, sparky. I don't know where you've posted this business card. Either you're missing something or I am. And the rest of your post is just pathetic. Your whining would register a little if you hadn't been caught out lying so many times.
 
Bryn said:
This is nothing like Atlas Shrugged. In an ideal world, we need a basic income to avoid poverty. It's in everyone's best interests to not have impoverished people, as slums and crime reduce everyone's standard of living. Unfortunately it only works in a country with decent employment and education, as a minority cannot sustain the free incomes of a majority (although the ANC would beg to differ).

It doesn't even need to be a big additional expense for government, but rather mostly a replacement of existing but ineffective social welfare systems.
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Well, here's a scenario: what if, by providing a basic income which replaces the Byzantine and multifarious welfare systems currently in place, you actually streamline government and save tax money? It's not unfeasible.
 
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