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Question of the Day: Which South African brand or product do you wish would make a return?
A criminal record for a minor outstanding fine?
- Thread starter Supine
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- speed fine speeding
Fazda
Honorary Master
Yee Gods!!
Ironic that it should emanate from Ekhuruleni - the crowd who were being managed by a murdering crook, who happened to lose his job after a drunk driving charge!
Ironic that it should emanate from Ekhuruleni - the crowd who were being managed by a murdering crook, who happened to lose his job after a drunk driving charge!
Speeding is a criminal offence and it goes onto your crime record
http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/industry-news/criminal-record-for-traffic-offenders-1.1668477
It says that it goes onto your criminal record when you pay the fine. It seems that they imply that not paying the fine would prevent you from being marked as a criminal. Whether you have paid the fine or not, eventually you will end up with a criminal record if caught speeding.
Someone with legal knowledge could perhaps enlighten forum members here?
Please keep this post free of senseless posts as we do not want to confuse readers; keep it factual and leave the negative comments for your own thread.
Thanks.
http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/industry-news/criminal-record-for-traffic-offenders-1.1668477
It says that it goes onto your criminal record when you pay the fine. It seems that they imply that not paying the fine would prevent you from being marked as a criminal. Whether you have paid the fine or not, eventually you will end up with a criminal record if caught speeding.
Someone with legal knowledge could perhaps enlighten forum members here?
Please keep this post free of senseless posts as we do not want to confuse readers; keep it factual and leave the negative comments for your own thread.
Thanks.
My first thoughts were this has to be an April Fool's joke - how AARTO handles it is one thing; what the RTA defines as a criminal offence is another matter. AARTO system isn't the law but only a law enforcement tool. One has to abide by the law. Bear in mind this apparently is very old legislation that only now seems to get implemented by some authorities, not all.
If this story is true, I hope there is a bit of leniency allowing for, say, 70km/h in a 60 zone or 140km/h in a 120 zone. I am not a lawyer but one should hope that also intent need to be proved by the state.
F
Fudzy
Guest
People 'ignoring' fines till they have to generate a summons and they wonder why the law comes down on them.
Sinbad
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nono, this is paying an admission of guilt for a minor speeding fine and getting a criminal record for it.
F
Fudzy
Guest
Sorry I hoped my ninja edit would have snuck through
For there to be a summons generated surely it's a last resort before coming to arrest you?
Sinbad
Honorary Master
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Sorry I hoped my ninja edit would have snuck through
It's nothing to do with summonses.
It's getting a criminal record entered on the books when you pay a normal admission of guilt fine for speeding. IE - you haven't been summonsed, you just paid the fine when you got it.
Here is the article by Bronwyn Fourie:
QUOTE
Durban - Motorists paying admission-of-guilt fines will soon incur criminal records as a provision in a 37-year-old apartheid-era law is quietly enforced.
Some may even already have criminal records because a clause in the Criminal Procedure Act of 1977 says paying a fine is the same as being convicted in court.
The provision has always been there, but is only now being implemented by some authorities.
Durban metro police have confirmed they will enforce it.
Pinetown motorist Andy Gardner was made aware of this when he went to pay a fine for speeding.
He was fined R150 for driving at 96km/h in an 80km/h zone, but did not receive the fine. However, on receiving a summons, he opted to pay the admission-of-guilt fine.
He said: “When I went to pay it, the cashier handed me a form which stated that, on payment, I would get a criminal record. I refused to sign this and decided I would rather appear in court and fight the charge.”
The form Gardner was told to sign said he acknowledged being informed that, by paying the fine, he was deemed to have been “convicted and sentenced by the court”.
It read: “On payment of the above-mentioned Admission of Guilt fine, such conviction will appear on your criminal record.”
After investigation, Gardner’s attorney told him this was in accordance with the law.
He wrote: “Unfortunately, as speeding is a criminal offence and you were issued with a criminal summons, you will get convicted if you pay the fine and this will show up on your record.
“In the past members of the public were not informed that, if they pay their fine, they will receive a record.”
Metro police spokesman Eugene Msomi confirmed the department had been told by the director of public prosecutions that it intended to “activate this provision in the law book”.
The police were told to “modify” their stationery to “conform with this change”.
“We have not yet effected it,” he said. “However, our new stationary shall reflect this change as per the director’s DPP’s request.
“We once again urge motorists owing traffic fines to take advantage of this period and pay their fines at the discounted incentive which is still under way.”
Asked why Gardner had already been asked to sign the notice, Msomi said his fine was issued by the provincial traffic authority.
The department of transport did not respond to numerous queries by The Mercury.
DEFECTIVE
However, in 2011, the Pietermaritzburg High Court found that notices such as the one Gardner was asked to sign were “fatally defective”.
In a special review case in which a Baron Fynn paid a R100 admission-of-guilt fine in respect of a common assault charge, subsequently incurring a criminal record, the judge said the notice informing him of the criminal record had to conform to the Criminal Procedure Act and state the charges against him, the time and place of the offence, as well as the person against whom the offence was committed.
As Fynn’s notice did not state this, the conviction and the fine were set aside.
The police confirmed that someone convicted of a criminal offence had to have their fingerprints taken before it reflected on their criminal record.
Justice Project of South Africa chairman Howard Dembovsky wrote an advisory on section 57 of the act after finding out that the Ekurhuleni (East Rand) metro police were implementing it.
He explained that, as per the act, the criminal record must be registered against one’s name and ID number, despite not having a criminal docket registered by police and fingerprints not being taken.
“The first time you become aware of this may be when you apply for a job or a travel visa…”
This provision, in the “apartheid-era” act, was “draconian” and “highly prejudicial”, Dembovsky said. “Without trivialising the seriousness of road traffic offences, one has to ask if legislators in our constitutional democracy would seek to criminalise everyone who commits a road traffic offence; then it won’t be long before almost every South African driving licence holder has a criminal record.”
Although traffic departments might see this as a deterrent to would-be offenders, “simply waking up one day 37 years after the fact and suddenly imposing criminal records on people is somewhat ominous”.
The department of justice and the Kwazulu-Natal National Prosecuting Authority were both asked for comment on Sunday night but failed to respond.
The Mercury
END QUOTE
And some further reading:
http://www.justanswer.com/south-afr...offences-speeding-fines-under-conditions.html
http://uzspace.uzulu.ac.za/handle/10530/924
http://www.jp-sa.org/Articles/bewareAOG.asp
http://www.enough.co.za/your-rights/
QUOTE
Durban - Motorists paying admission-of-guilt fines will soon incur criminal records as a provision in a 37-year-old apartheid-era law is quietly enforced.
Some may even already have criminal records because a clause in the Criminal Procedure Act of 1977 says paying a fine is the same as being convicted in court.
The provision has always been there, but is only now being implemented by some authorities.
Durban metro police have confirmed they will enforce it.
Pinetown motorist Andy Gardner was made aware of this when he went to pay a fine for speeding.
He was fined R150 for driving at 96km/h in an 80km/h zone, but did not receive the fine. However, on receiving a summons, he opted to pay the admission-of-guilt fine.
He said: “When I went to pay it, the cashier handed me a form which stated that, on payment, I would get a criminal record. I refused to sign this and decided I would rather appear in court and fight the charge.”
The form Gardner was told to sign said he acknowledged being informed that, by paying the fine, he was deemed to have been “convicted and sentenced by the court”.
It read: “On payment of the above-mentioned Admission of Guilt fine, such conviction will appear on your criminal record.”
After investigation, Gardner’s attorney told him this was in accordance with the law.
He wrote: “Unfortunately, as speeding is a criminal offence and you were issued with a criminal summons, you will get convicted if you pay the fine and this will show up on your record.
“In the past members of the public were not informed that, if they pay their fine, they will receive a record.”
Metro police spokesman Eugene Msomi confirmed the department had been told by the director of public prosecutions that it intended to “activate this provision in the law book”.
The police were told to “modify” their stationery to “conform with this change”.
“We have not yet effected it,” he said. “However, our new stationary shall reflect this change as per the director’s DPP’s request.
“We once again urge motorists owing traffic fines to take advantage of this period and pay their fines at the discounted incentive which is still under way.”
Asked why Gardner had already been asked to sign the notice, Msomi said his fine was issued by the provincial traffic authority.
The department of transport did not respond to numerous queries by The Mercury.
DEFECTIVE
However, in 2011, the Pietermaritzburg High Court found that notices such as the one Gardner was asked to sign were “fatally defective”.
In a special review case in which a Baron Fynn paid a R100 admission-of-guilt fine in respect of a common assault charge, subsequently incurring a criminal record, the judge said the notice informing him of the criminal record had to conform to the Criminal Procedure Act and state the charges against him, the time and place of the offence, as well as the person against whom the offence was committed.
As Fynn’s notice did not state this, the conviction and the fine were set aside.
The police confirmed that someone convicted of a criminal offence had to have their fingerprints taken before it reflected on their criminal record.
Justice Project of South Africa chairman Howard Dembovsky wrote an advisory on section 57 of the act after finding out that the Ekurhuleni (East Rand) metro police were implementing it.
He explained that, as per the act, the criminal record must be registered against one’s name and ID number, despite not having a criminal docket registered by police and fingerprints not being taken.
“The first time you become aware of this may be when you apply for a job or a travel visa…”
This provision, in the “apartheid-era” act, was “draconian” and “highly prejudicial”, Dembovsky said. “Without trivialising the seriousness of road traffic offences, one has to ask if legislators in our constitutional democracy would seek to criminalise everyone who commits a road traffic offence; then it won’t be long before almost every South African driving licence holder has a criminal record.”
Although traffic departments might see this as a deterrent to would-be offenders, “simply waking up one day 37 years after the fact and suddenly imposing criminal records on people is somewhat ominous”.
The department of justice and the Kwazulu-Natal National Prosecuting Authority were both asked for comment on Sunday night but failed to respond.
The Mercury
END QUOTE
And some further reading:
http://www.justanswer.com/south-afr...offences-speeding-fines-under-conditions.html
http://uzspace.uzulu.ac.za/handle/10530/924
http://www.jp-sa.org/Articles/bewareAOG.asp
http://www.enough.co.za/your-rights/
Last edited:
F
Fudzy
Guest
I would be interested to see if this happens to people who go to pay on their first notification, it only gives reference to this Pinetown chap who received a criminal summons.
I think that reading the following page of Justice Project SA is a very important one. Bookmark it as well http://www.jp-sa.org/Articles/bewareAOG.asp
Where I live, for the past 5 years, there is a constant average of 30 vehicles per hour without using headlights at night. I cannot remember when last I saw someone stop at a stop sign and drivers generally ignore red traffic lights at the two controlled pedestrian crossings nearby. It means that almost every driver is a criminal! Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
While the law seems to be draconian, the sheer arrogance of drivers in general also is a concern. It is easy to point fingers at the politicians, ANC, etc., but what example do we set as drivers? How innocent are we before the law?
It is not difficult to do the right thing and it is a short cut away from trouble. Rather be safe than sorry and adhere to laws that are there to protect lives and property.
F
Fudzy
Guest
Totally agree, you have to lead by example.
This country is hell bent on giving everybody a criminal record. If not through this speeding fine method then through e-tolls. Seems like the criminals in government want the same for those they role i.e. criminal records.
What worries me personally is that I travel quite a bit and having a criminal record will affect visa applications. Also, I'm a director in several companies. Will this now mean that I'm no longer fit to hold those positions seeing as I have a criminal record?
These actions of dishing out criminal records for traffic offences will have far reaching effects.
What worries me personally is that I travel quite a bit and having a criminal record will affect visa applications. Also, I'm a director in several companies. Will this now mean that I'm no longer fit to hold those positions seeing as I have a criminal record?
These actions of dishing out criminal records for traffic offences will have far reaching effects.
Sonic2k
Executive Member
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- Feb 7, 2011
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So many years ago (like in 14 years ago) I had some fines for speeding I paid.
So far no criminal record.
The fact that they are coming with this all of a sudden now, means one thing, they want to break this country, they want to shut everything down.
So far no criminal record.
The fact that they are coming with this all of a sudden now, means one thing, they want to break this country, they want to shut everything down.
I have consulted with Adv Jonck of ArriveAlive and he has referred me to this document: http://www.jp-sa.org/sec57CPA.asp This really is an important read.
Once again, doing the right thing is easier than the wrong as you have no mess to clean up afterwards. Do not overextend yourselves into trouble.
Lead by example. I go pink ticket free!
Once again, doing the right thing is easier than the wrong as you have no mess to clean up afterwards. Do not overextend yourselves into trouble.
Lead by example. I go pink ticket free!
The way I see people drive and also ride their racing bicycles, means that we are hell bent on breaking the country before "they" do! Stop pointing fingers at others - are you without blame or tarnish? It is this hypocrisy that irks me endlessly!!