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A reminder about WikiLeaks
- Thread starter copacetic
- Start date
Because it shows the US in a bad light and they can't claim to liberate anyone if people actually know the thruth?
Manning took an oath, he broke that oath no matter what motivated him and what good intentions he had and he knew what he was doing so he has to face the music no matter how noble the cause.
Assange is little more than an attention whore with some psychological problems, especially in the bedroom and he has to face those charges, claiming "they" are just trying to discredit him to get out of rape charges sounds a little too familiar and I have to wonder if he will be president some day too.
Exposing stuff about the Americans is fine, but remember that if you draw attention to yourself, first make sure you are squeaky clean or they will find that skeleton in the closet and beat you to death with it and if you think they won't you obviously shouldn't be playing in the big boy game.
They didn't even need to manufacture stuff about Asange so he should have known better than to stand up and start yelling at an already defensive and angry bear.
On a personal note the guy seems to be the kid that told tattle tales in the schoolyard to gain favor with the teacher, it seems to be what he aspired to and finally grew up to be as well.
There is thousands of anonymous hackers out there that does not crave attention like this guy, that just gets on with exposing the wrongdoing of governments and people in power and never tries to make the headlines or become the people in power themselves.
The guy apparently got paid as a journalist on the side by people that is said to be loosely affiliated with the CIA and other international intelligence agencies, so can anything from him really be trusted as the truth never mind the whole truth.
I don't think his information was as reliable and untouched by someone behind the scenes as they would like us to believe.
Assange is little more than an attention whore with some psychological problems, especially in the bedroom and he has to face those charges, claiming "they" are just trying to discredit him to get out of rape charges sounds a little too familiar and I have to wonder if he will be president some day too.
Exposing stuff about the Americans is fine, but remember that if you draw attention to yourself, first make sure you are squeaky clean or they will find that skeleton in the closet and beat you to death with it and if you think they won't you obviously shouldn't be playing in the big boy game.
They didn't even need to manufacture stuff about Asange so he should have known better than to stand up and start yelling at an already defensive and angry bear.
On a personal note the guy seems to be the kid that told tattle tales in the schoolyard to gain favor with the teacher, it seems to be what he aspired to and finally grew up to be as well.
There is thousands of anonymous hackers out there that does not crave attention like this guy, that just gets on with exposing the wrongdoing of governments and people in power and never tries to make the headlines or become the people in power themselves.
The guy apparently got paid as a journalist on the side by people that is said to be loosely affiliated with the CIA and other international intelligence agencies, so can anything from him really be trusted as the truth never mind the whole truth.
I don't think his information was as reliable and untouched by someone behind the scenes as they would like us to believe.
Arthur
Honorary Master
Assange and the whole WikiLeaks thing are soo passé. In some ways I find them even more irrrritating than the people they're ostensibly against. Yawn morphing to growl.
copacetic
King of the Hippies
copacetic
King of the Hippies
This is essentially what the article is referring to, this attitude. Did you read it?
copacetic
King of the Hippies
Again, this is precisely the attitude that the article is addressing. Did you read it?
To tell the truth, no, I only watched the video and went on a rant, I'm tired and missed the link but will read it bit later, sorry.
Disregard anything I said that you guys don't agree with
Eh, I just read the whole piece and I take it back, don't disregard what I said, I stand by it.
I came to my own conclusions about Assange and don't think that he is being setup / vilified at all, just for the Amercans to get hold of him to prosecute him on espionage etc., the guy has a long, very long line of enemies that's not in any government and his reputation was bad long before the Manning case.
I agree that it will be bad for us all if he gets extradited to America and is prosecuted for espionage since he's not a citizen, but the rape case needs to be faced.
Assange is claiming the rape case is a setup and might be right but his past tells us that he might also be capable of that and he needs to defend himself in court where everything can come to light.
One of the women is rumored to be connected to the intelligence community as he himself is, but he will have to deal with that even if he never received anything from Manning.
What this means to me is what he put forth in the leaks might not have been the full un-tweaked truth, the guy is connected to shady people and is being discredited from all sides here and the leaks might just be a calculated long con, till we know for sure I won't trust it 100%.
I know mad Bob up north will agree with me at least
That article also said that open leaks didn't produce anything, well they might not have but others did, that article itself smells a little off but I'm paranoid, heck I don't even trust google.
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copacetic
King of the Hippies
To tell the truth, no, I only watched the video and went on a rant, I'm tired and missed the link but will read it bit later, sorry.
Disregard anything I said that you guys don't agree with
It's worth a read. Disagreeing with you is neither here nor there. I'm glad you commented as you did, as it just illustrates perfectly the intent of the article.
Might want to reread my bit, I edited it
I live by the saying that just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you but using the Nixon thing as an excuse could have been Zuma a few years ago and just as valid as his excuse was too, since we are still to be furnished with any proof.
Synaesthesia
Executive Member
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That's why he's so brave.
If you go into a profession where you are expected to follow orders and act according to an oath while fully intending to break that oath because of your sexual and political views, don't expect sympathy when you get nailed to the wall.
Yes he was brave or very naive, but he is stupid enough to be classified as a honorary Darwin award winner, public opinion has very little pull in military justice and making people that carry weapons for a living mad at you on purpose is just dumb.
Yes he was brave or very naive, but he is stupid enough to be classified as a honorary Darwin award winner, public opinion has very little pull in military justice and making people that carry weapons for a living mad at you on purpose is just dumb.
copacetic
King of the Hippies
To tell the truth, no, I only watched the video and went on a rant, I'm tired and missed the link but will read it bit later, sorry.
Disregard anything I said that you guys don't agree with
Eh, I just read the whole piece and I take it back, don't disregard what I said, I stand by it.
I came to my own conclusions about Assange and don't think that he is being setup / vilified at all, just for the Amercans to get hold of him to prosecute him on espionage etc., the guy has a long, very long line of enemies that's not in any government and his reputation was bad long before the Manning case.
Who are all these enemies?
If this:
http://radsoft.net/news/20101001,01.shtml
is correct (and I don't see any reason to disbelieve the claims made therein), then the rape case is highly suspect.
As detailed and linked in Greenwald's article, there seems to be reasons for Assange to be concerned about Sweden and subsequently America.
That said, if this 'danger' is overblown or non-existent, then of course he should face the charges in Sweden, trumped up, or not.
What shady people?
I know mad Bob up north will agree with me at least
That article also said that open leaks didn't produce anything, well they might not have but others did, that article itself smells a little off but I'm paranoid, heck I don't even trust google.
You do sound a bit paranoid actually, I agree. Glenn Greenwald is by far the most reasonable voice I've come across, to discuss these sorts of issues. Read a couple, you'll see what I mean.
copacetic
King of the Hippies
I am not sure why you think his sexual views had anything to do with the leaks?
In any event, if the military is breaking laws, I don't understand why it seems a far worse crime to expose that law breaking, than the actual crime itself.
I am not sure why you think his sexual views had anything to do with the leaks?
In any event, if the military is breaking laws, I don't understand why it seems a far worse crime to expose that law breaking, than the actual crime itself.
I believe his lawyer brought up that his view that gays were prevented to join the military back then was part of his motivation to leak the documents, it was quite a while ago and I'm not going to look for a link but I'm sure it's a google search away, if not, then I miss read or heard, I'm almost sure it was on either salon or huffpo.
It's not worse, I'm just stating that if you poke a sleeping bear and it bites you and you knew it would, is it the bears or your fault.
copacetic
King of the Hippies
Who is at fault is irrelevant, as far as I am concerned. The bigger picture is what matters here, and this attitude of 'well, he should have seen it coming' achieves precisely nothing.
I'm really not invested in the whole Assange saga, it's taking too long and it smacks of political and ideological dirty tricks on both sides.
Suffice it to say that Assange has to face the court and state his side, it's just that simple, no amount of public opinion is going to stop the process now, if the prosecution has enough evidence against him to warrant a case, let them prove it and let him face it and fight it with his.
If the Americans succeeds in extraditing him for treason, which I highly doubt they can, since he is not a citizen of the United States, a drone strike is more likely rather than a protracted "treason" case, where every media monkey will be playing their cymbals all day long espousing their conspiracy theory and version of the facts, then I'll do everything I can to stop that.
As to the shady people they are the CIA and some leftist organizations in Europe, I don't have links but it is also somewhere on the net, that said, if you need information you have to associate with all sorts of people and the people with the info isn't always squeaky clean.
I personally don't trust Assange, the attention and glory seeking is a big problem and there is just too many people for and against him in the media.
Some of his leaks can't be proven, not because they aren't true, I'm not saying that, but just because the sources aren't available to verify them due to the way they were obtained, so anyone can claim anything and could have edited any part to fit a political agenda, someone with obvious flaws can easily be manipulated into doing anything.
The media is very dangerous as any South-African knows and they have a vested interest in this case, the left skews their stories to fit their audience and so does the right, somewhere in the middle is the truth but us talking about it on a forum wont change anything about this case.
Let's wait and see where this goes, if it's America, then we can start to worry and act accordingly, till then I'm not hitching my wagon to Assange.
I'm saying that Manning went into this with a goal, knowing the eventual outcome if caught, he was caught and has to carry the can, no mater how noble or just his cause, he fell on his sword and was not forced onto the thing, the rest is media spin.
The fact is that the information is out, Manning is a hero to many but that does not make him innocent.
Synaesthesia
Executive Member
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Yes he is guilty of the crime of breaking his oath to the military.