Accounting and auditing firm problem..

Goliath

Goliath

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So the other day our auditors(who we always have problems with) did a factual findings report for us so that we can proceed with a certain deal.. long story short, after my investigation I discovered something that the auditors said they confirmed and inspected in one of their steps to actually be incorrect(they said they inspected our trust docs for the trustees but in fact they didn't as the trustees on the act was still the old trustees and the act was never updated by them(as they said they did and we paid them that fee, but they actually didn't!) at the court to show the new trustees.. later on we discovered they actually didn't even looked at the trust act document and just confirmed it on minutes of meetings and one of the steps on the report clearly state to inspect the trust act..

Thus in a nutshell, they lied on the report compiled for the attorneys.. which is actually serious if i am not mistaken, can I take the firm to IRBA and SAICA and report this? Anybody else done this before.. would like to hear what you guys think thanks!
 
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That is very serious, especially if that is an important step. I'm not sure what the correct process would be, but I think IRBA would be the best one to contact, and then they can tell you what to do from there.
 
Mavix said:
That is very serious, especially if that is an important step. I'm not sure what the correct process would be, but I think IRBA would be the best one to contact, and then they can tell you what to do from there.
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We haven't actually considered reporting them(still deciding) but it is just shocking to see that auditors(the people you are suppose to trust) do this things and charge their clients high fees for it.. To add to that, every year I compile the financials completely for our trust(very very basic trust) with working papers/supporting documentation the works, they just put the numbers in their template(mine is identical to theirs except for their logo which they put in) and charge me R2500 for it(15mins worth of time on their side), just insane! But wait, there's more! 2 years ago they submitted our tax return incorrectly which resulted in us owing SARS R15000 in taxes where in fact we made a loss that year.. so then we got audited and had to go through all that crap just to correct their mistake!
 
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You can of course lodge a complaint with SAICA - they take these things very seriously. No, IRBA would not be appropriate since it is not a statutory audit.

I would strongly recommend first speaking to a senior staff member who worked on the engagement though if you haven't done this already - these things are rarely as clear-cut as they appear.

Goliath said:
We haven't actually considered reporting them(still deciding)
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No you should report them - after you've heard their side of the story and made very sure that you've got your facts straight. If there is indeed a problem and it does not get reported then everybody is worse off in the long run.
 
Thanks havoc, will definitely go forward with this. I have actually done my homework, I have the factual findings report with me that states certain info that they say they confirmed against the trust docs.. but I have the original and it doesn't agree, so then I contacted them and wanted an explanation, we then discovered that they never updated the trust docs to include the new trustees and remove the old trustees 2 years prior at the Masters Court(they charged us for this service and we paid). Then we took them on and asked to see this trust doc and of course they couldn't give it to us as they also have the old one and the lady who compiled the doc just used the minutes om meeting in their report. They then requested that we sign new docs etc so that they can actually update the trustees etc(which should have been done 2 years prior as we then also signed the documents etc but they just never handed it in at the masters court) and this was finally completed AFTER their factual findings report so I have proof of their error and written confirmation that they only used the minutes in their report..
 
Interesting situation. You should phone up IRBA and SAICA and get an opinion. Is this a large firm? I work for a small/medium sized firm in Stellenbosch and you have me a bit worried here...

It is of course hard for an auditor to pick something like this up should the clerk tick something off that is incorrect (ghost or phantom ticking). But firms have insurance against this should there be monetary complications.
 
GrootBaas said:
Interesting situation. You should phone up IRBA and SAICA and get an opinion. Is this a large firm? I work for a small/medium sized firm in Stellenbosch and you have me a bit worried here...

It is of course hard for an auditor to pick something like this up should the clerk tick something off that is incorrect (ghost or phantom ticking). But firms have insurance against this should there be monetary complications.
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Unfortunately I cannot tell you what firm or where they located for obvious reasons.. Will get an opinion from SAICA and see how it goes. I was a article clerk myself, but this report was not compiled by a clerk but by someone bit higher up which makes it even worse..

I'm not in for suing them for money etc but I have reached a point where it is just not acceptable for a professional firm, we are very small and easy client and we always had trouble the last 4 years with them, 2 of which was quite serious(1 SARS audit and the other the troubles mentioned above) and due to no fault of our own.. with no apologies from their side etc, hate to think what they are doing(and getting away with) to their bigger clients..
 
Keep us updated. Would be interesting to see what can happen to them.
 
Goliath said:
So the other day our auditors(who we always have problems with) did a factual findings report for us so that we can proceed with a certain deal.. long story short, after my investigation I discovered something that the auditors said they confirmed and inspected in one of their steps to actually be incorrect(they said they inspected our trust docs for the trustees but in fact they didn't as the trustees on the act was still the old trustees and the act was never updated by them(as they said they did and we paid them that fee, but they actually didn't!) at the court to show the new trustees.. later on we discovered they actually didn't even looked at the trust act document and just confirmed it on minutes of meetings and one of the steps on the report clearly state to inspect the trust act..

Thus in a nutshell, they lied on the report compiled for the attorneys.. which is actually serious if i am not mistaken, can I take the firm to IRBA and SAICA and report this? Anybody else done this before.. would like to hear what you guys think thanks!
Click to expand...

I suggest you consult a real lawyer instead of the "experts" on mybb. Lol.
 
Goliath said:
Unfortunately I cannot tell you what firm or where they located for obvious reasons.. Will get an opinion from SAICA and see how it goes. I was a article clerk myself, but this report was not compiled by a clerk but by someone bit higher up which makes it even worse..

I'm not in for suing them for money etc but I have reached a point where it is just not acceptable for a professional firm, we are very small and easy client and we always had trouble the last 4 years with them, 2 of which was quite serious(1 SARS audit and the other the troubles mentioned above) and due to no fault of our own.. with no apologies from their side etc, hate to think what they are doing(and getting away with) to their bigger clients..
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If doesnt matter who compiled it, as it is supposed to be reviewed by a partner.

Auditors always qualify their opinion by saying it is based on what was available to them. This is their "escape" clause. I was also an articled clerk. Can't say it is the noblest profession out there. All about protecting fees and dodging liability, despite the spin about "protecting the shareholder" etc.,

I would be really surprised if you could pin anything on them, they more slippery than politicians and lawyers , but good luck. And get a proper legal opinion from the legal ..... profession....
 
zippy said:
I suggest you consult a real lawyer instead of the "experts" on mybb. Lol.
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I was actually just wondering what you guys on the forum thought as I am not to keen to go through all the hassle of reporting them etc but think I'm just gonna let it go as everything is now dealt with as of today, moving to other firm this year.. but you're right zippy, somewhere they will have an escape or something! GRRR
 
You have to report them to SAICA and IRBA because theyhave violated the *due care* part of the SAICA code of ethics. If you have a legal unit, go via them because there are legal implications as well. From what you have explained, it appears there has been some negligence & you probably have a good chance of winning this one & hopefully getting some of your money back as well.
 
zippy said:
I suggest you consult a real lawyer instead of the "experts" on mybb. Lol.
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there are "experts" on this forum i'll have you know. i find your comment insulting to others on the forum. this is not like it's a medical question, so the OP is quite within his rights to ask the people on this forum their opinions in the matter.
 
Celine said:
there are "experts" on this forum i'll have you know. i find your comment insulting to others on the forum. this is not like it's a medical question, so the OP is quite within his rights to ask the people on this forum their opinions in the matter.
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I am an expert in my field. I have had.to endure many infractions when I put the "experts" on this forum in their place by telling them they are talking crap. I dont do it anymore as life is too short. That is what he meant and I understood it the same way
 
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