ADSL and Lightning

the damage does come from telkom lines too.
every router uses a isolated step down transformer which separates it from the ac mains and after each loss i have experienced the power supply was not damaged.
It is called galvanic isolation. Everything has it. All appliances contain significant protection rated in thousands of volts. Earth a surge protector for the rare and destructive surge that may otherwise overwhelm protection inside every appliance. But again, surge protection is always about where energy gets dissipated.

No protector is protection. Effective protectors are connecting devices to protetion. No earth ground means no effective protection. No earth ground means energy inside a building will blow through galvanic isolation.

No earth ground is also why some insist nothing can protect from ightning. That is 'woe is me' reasoning. Responsible adults do not use defeatist reasoning.

That clicking telephone is only noise - maybe millivolts. Trivial and irrelevant to the topic. Even a 1.5 volt battery can create that same sound. Surge protectors ignore everything until that voltage exceed something around 300 volts (for phone lines). Surge protectors are installed for the rare type of surge that is destructive - well above 300 volts. That means a short connection to earth. All incoming wires connected to that same electrode. And earthing upgraded as necessary since a protector is only as effective as that earth ground.

All appliances already contain any protection that might work on its power cord. One example of that is galvanic isolation. Destructive surges that would blow right through that galvanic isolation must be earthed before entering the building.
 
Destructive surges that would blow right through that galvanic isolation must be earthed before entering the building.
westom, so practically how should one ground your telephone line? That is before it gets to your router's ADSL port?
 
westom, so practically how should one ground your telephone line? That is before it gets to your router's ADSL port?
As stated so many times before. Every wire inside every cable must make that short (ie 'less than 3 meter') connection to earth before entering the building. Either that connection is directly (cable TV, satellite dish). Or that connection is made via a 'whole house' protector. These exist for AC electric. Another type for telephone (because telephones require a low capacitance version). Another type if ethernet cables interconnect buildings.

An example:
http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/furse11.htm

See the #PHN at:
http://www.lightningrodparts.com/surge.html

Or
http://www.citelprotection.com/english/citel_data_sheets/data_line_protection/B280_B380_B480.PDF

Of course, you may do better locally. A majority of protectors without that always critical and dedicated earthing are scams.

Or construct a telephone 'whole house' protector. Nothing is complex since the most complex part is the earthing. Use components such as Sidactors
http://www.ryston.cz/pdf/teccor/appnotes.pdf
or low capacitance avalanche diodes from Semtech. Each must connect one wire 'less than 3 meters' to single point earth ground. Each is typically rated at about 300 volts. IOW protectors - even telephone line protectors - ignore irrelevant and trivial surges below something like 300 volts.

Earth ground: each wire should be as short as possible. Things that compromise protection - sharp wire bends, splices, wire inside metalic conduit, wire bundled with other non-grounding wires. All ground wires (for each utility) should route seperate until all meet at the single point earth ground. Yes, a wire from the basement going up over the foundation and down to earth ground - defective. Wire is too long. Too many sharp bends. Appreciate what defines protection - what is meant by better earthing.

Wire thickness (resistance) is not the critically important parameter (which is why electricians have difficulty with the concepts). Wire length (impedance) and other factors such as sharp wire bends are critical to better earthing.

For more information, read a highly regarded industry app notes:
http://www.polyphaser.com/technical_notes.aspx
 
Of course, you may do better locally.
OK, so basically something like this from Clearline, where the earth wire (green one at bottom) goes straight to a ground spike with the cable length being no longer than 3m.

Will this do the trick e.g. all equipment on the 'protected out' end of telephone line, as well as the protector itself being impervious to (near but not direct) lightning strikes?
 
It is called galvanic isolation. Everything has it. All appliances contain significant protection rated in thousands of volts. Earth a surge protector for the rare and destructive surge that may otherwise overwhelm protection inside every appliance. But again, surge protection is always about where energy gets dissipated.

No protector is protection. Effective protectors are connecting devices to protetion. No earth ground means no effective protection. No earth ground means energy inside a building will blow through galvanic isolation.

No earth ground is also why some insist nothing can protect from ightning. That is 'woe is me' reasoning. Responsible adults do not use defeatist reasoning.

That clicking telephone is only noise - maybe millivolts. Trivial and irrelevant to the topic. Even a 1.5 volt battery can create that same sound. Surge protectors ignore everything until that voltage exceed something around 300 volts (for phone lines). Surge protectors are installed for the rare type of surge that is destructive - well above 300 volts. That means a short connection to earth. All incoming wires connected to that same electrode. And earthing upgraded as necessary since a protector is only as effective as that earth ground.

All appliances already contain any protection that might work on its power cord. One example of that is galvanic isolation. Destructive surges that would blow right through that galvanic isolation must be earthed before entering the building.

this is for the perfect world with the perfect installation.

this will get you an A in university but will fail dismaly in the real world.
i work in an industrial environment that meets the requirements for this kind of installation, it costs thousands of RRR's to get this kind of protection.
monthly inspections need to be done on the connections and an annual certification needs to be done for insurance purposes.

i use the clearline 100 base T protectors and they are fantastic but the cost is high.

if you can afford the earthing you speak about then good but if not then you will be in the same basket as the rest of us.

the truth is we do not have this kind of protection in residential homes, the best bet would be to unplug when not in use if you do not want to replace equipment.
 
OK, so basically something like this from Clearline, where the earth wire (green one at bottom) goes straight to a ground spike with the cable length being no longer than 3m.
That Clearline is to make direct lightning strikes (not just near strikes) irrelevant. This only based on observation since detailed specs were not provided. Earthing that protector means protection superior to disconnecting. Only the naive believe disconnecting is sufficient protection - especially when the most unreliable thing inside a building is humans. (Why are humans so innovative? Because humans make so many mistakes. Good for innovation. Bad for surge protection.)

Observation suggests Clearline is similar to devices installed by your telco. Telcos also do not disconnect. Disconnecting is too unreliable. Reality: superior protectors are also some of the least expensive, in part, because the naive tend to buy an inferior solutions when it costs more.

Now, that is two incoming wires. Zero protection exists if any wire enters the building without that short connection to the same earthing electrode. A surge incoming on any other wire (ie AC electric) may find earth ground destructively via the phone line. This is a most common destructive path through telecom equipment. You must implement this solution to every incoming wire (including satellite dish) to not have telecom damage. If any AC wire also does not have an earthed protector, then surge on AC wires may find earth via telephone equipment and Clearline protector.

How good is your earthing? Earthing (not protectors) is where more money means better protection. Protectors are only simple science. The art is earthing. Some example from history to make that Clearline more effective.

Disconneccting: early 20th Century Ham radio operators would suffer lightning damage even when an antenna lead was disconnected and put inside a Mason jar. When did damage stop? When the antenna lead was connected to earth. Even 100 years ago, disconnecting was not a reliable solution. Earthing eliminated damage.

How irrelevant are nearby strikes? Two examples. First a longwire (40 meter) antenna was near a direct lightning strike. Therefore multiple thousands of volts appeared on that antenna lead. So an NE-2 (neon glow light) was connected to that lead. A light that conducts only tens of milliamps. Now those thousands of volts are reduced to a trivial ten. A current so small that the neon glow lamp hardly glows. Nearby strikes are that trivial - that easily made irrelevant. Address transients that actually do damage - direct strikes.

Second example: lightning struck the building's lightning rod. That massive current traveled to earth via a wire 1 meter outside of a working PC. Fields from that direct lightning stike destroyed the nearby computer? Yes according urban myths posted here and that an overwhelming majority believe. No. That computer did not even blink. Nearby strikes do not cause damage because all appliances contain superior protection.

How do myths get created? Third example demonstrates better earthing (because a protectors is only as effective as its earth ground). Lightning struck a nearby tree. Therefore a cow some 8 meters away died. Nearby fields killed the cow? Of course not. As stated repeatedly from science: current must have both an incoming and outgoing path. That nearby strike was a direct strike to the cow. How?

A current path is not from a cloud some five kilometers to distant charges. The path is three kilometers down to that tree and four kilometers through earth to distant charges. A shortest path was up the cow's hind legs and down its fore legs. Cow was directly struck (and killed) due to no single point ground.

Protect that cow: a buried copper wire (similar soluton is called Ufer ground) surrounding the cow means no electric current through that cow. (Same technique is to keep your feet together during a thunderstorm.)

The uneducated would assume a nearby strike killed the cow. Observation without knowledge often creates myths. Myths also promote disconnecting or more money on expensive (scam) protectors. One poster mocks knowledge that was understood even 100 years ago because he 'feels' it must be false. Resulting myths based in hearsay, junk science, and soundbyte logic will deny that Clearline can conduct 10,000 amps without damage. (Since you probably do not understand why, then you should be asking an obvious question.)

Reality. Nearby lightning strikes do not cause damage. Damage is only due to a direct strike - with both an incomng and outgoing path to earth. Protection is always about earthing direct strikes without damage even to the Clearline protector. Protection is always about energy not inside the building (ie not wasting money on plug-in protectors).

To have damage (or death) means both an incoming and outgoing current path existed. Protection (which disconnecting cannot provide) always means 'diverting' to earth. That Clearline apparently says 10,000 amps to earth without damage. Then a typical direct lightning strike would not damage even the protector. If properly earthed, no interior telecom equipment would be damaged (assume all other incoming wires are also properly earthed).

Above examples demonstrate principles you should understand to make that Clearline protector effective (and even how to protect yourself during thunderstorms). The soundbyte: that protector is only as effective as its earth ground. That art demonstrated in some examples.
 
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Hi westom,

I find your posts very informative, but I get the feeling you not gonna make it easy on us to get properly protected. You want us to do our own research, hehe!

Anyway, I recently lost my ADSL modem in a direct strike to my electric fence around the property. The fence still works, but the modem died and took out a port on my gigabit switch. I have no protection at all. This must be fixed...

So, would you agree with the following:
1. Use the Clearline telco protector as linked above.
2. Place this outside the house prior to the telco wires coming into the house.
3. Use a 1.5m copper rod and hammer it into the ground as close as possible to the telco protector.
4. Use at least 4mm copper wire, bending at max 45deg angles and connect the protector to the rod.

Would the above give adequate protection?
 
Would the above give adequate protection?
Previously posted was
If any AC wire also does not have an earthed protector, then surge on AC wires may find earth via telephone equipment and Clearline protector.
Surges seek earth ground. Surges damages telecom equipment when that is a destructive path to earth. Everything has an outgoing path to earth. Your protection is to intercept any and every incoming path. Otherwise energy is inside the house destructively hunting for earth.

Is that electric fence connected by any wire to the house? Then that wire must also connect short to single point earth ground where it enters the building.

Homes are often wired improperly, in part, because electricians are not taught this stuff. One utility demonstrates good, bad, and ugly earthing. How to correct (or kludge) defective wiring by expanding the single point ground:
http://www.duke-energy.com/indiana-business/products/power-quality/tech-tip-08.asp or
http://tinyurl.com/yefm8n9

But again the point: every incoming wire inside every cable must first connect to single point earth before entering a building. Connect either directly or via a 'whole house' type protector.

More important than limiting wire bends to 45 degrees; make sweeping curves - not sharp wire bends.

To better appreciate these concepts, let's assume that fence was the incoming path. So what was the path to earth that also passed through that gigabit switch. Well, you know current was passing through one (now damaged) port. That means a current was also passing through what was connected to that port. Everything in that path was not damaged. Or that connected device was overstressed - may fail many months later.

If the port was damaged, then current was flowing through a computer connected to that port. Was that computer a connection to earth? Maybe. That means current was even flowing through the computer's motherboard - again an example of how some devices are not damaged.

First current flows through everything in a path from cloud to earth. Only later does something fail - that gigabit switch port. Surges are electricity. That means the surge was also flowing through every items (ie power supply for the fence) necessary to connect to earth.

You must intercept every incoming wire; connect every incoming surge to earth before it can enter the building. Many foolishly assume if telecom equipment is damaged, then the surge must have been incoming on telephone wires. Nonsense. That telephone wire could have been the outgoing path to earth. Surge incoming on fence, into AC wires, through computer power supply, out via the network card, into the gigabit switch, then out to earth ground via a phone line connected to the switch.

Most telecom equipment is damaged by surges incoming on AC mains. More wires that must connect short to earth at the service entrance.
 
Thanks for the feedback Westom. I'll be perusing your links. But I guess it comes down to the fact that there's no magic box that can protect some device by itself. If I understand correctly, each and every possible path needs to be protected otherwise you wasting your time.
 
Hey guys so my question is if my ADSL modem router was hit by lightning will the modem still light up or will it just play Dead because I reported the fault to telkom and they send a technician he just came and stood there and told me that it was struck by lighting because there was lightning in our area and so it was hit by lightning so now I don't understand because when the adsl internet light switched off it was sunny outside there was no lightning now they want us to buy a thousand Rand adsl modem again there.
 
Hey guys so my question is if my ADSL modem router was hit by lightning will the modem still light up or will it just play Dead because I reported the fault to telkom and they send a technician he just came and stood there and told me that it was struck by lighting because there was lightning in our area and so it was hit by lightning so now I don't understand because when the adsl internet light switched off it was sunny outside there was no lightning now they want us to buy a thousand Rand adsl modem again there.
Huge necro.

If it was directly struck by lightning you'd have a hole in your house.

If it was hit by a surge pretty much no one would be able to tell for certain. Cues are a burnt smell etc but it's not definitive. Could be load shedding, could be a faulty PSU.

Things just die as well.

Unfortunately, these things carry little to no warranty. Best just get a new router.
 
Huge necro.

If it was directly struck by lightning you'd have a hole in your house.

If it was hit by a surge pretty much no one would be able to tell for certain. Cues are a burnt smell etc but it's not definitive. Could be load shedding, could be a faulty PSU.

Things just die as well.

Unfortunately, these things carry little to no warranty. Best just get a new router.
Oh always thought if something was hit by lightning in any way it wouldn't even light or power on
 
Oh always thought if something was hit by lightning in any way it wouldn't even light or power on
You can test with a used router - there are so many used ADSL routers on sale for cheap, now that ADSL is being replaced by Fibre ...
 
Oh always thought if something was hit by lightning in any way it wouldn't even light or power on
My experience has been that mostly the router still powers up but the modem side is dead, it either does not detect the ADSL or will not logon.

Sometimes it appears as if the lightning strike also knocks out your port in the exchange then the technician needs to change that as well.
 
12 year old thread lives again!

frankenstein-its-alive.gif
 
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