ADSL worth it or not?

ChezAnwyne · Nov 2, 2003

Hi all

I am considering getting ADSL and have been following these forums for a while.
Although its been invaluable in helping to understand some of the issues around port prioritisation, the 3GB cap, different modems, crappy service from Telkom, etc, its also been extremely frustrating in other areas.

Even after reading countless posts, I still have no idea whether ADSL is worth it for me or not.

I have a couple of friends with ADSL access.
Some of them are using the standard issue Marconi modem, some are not.
Some are with Telkom Internet, some are not.
Some are frequent Kazaa users, some are not.
Some have been hitting the 3GB cap, some never have.
All of them are fairly happy with their browsing and download speeds, with no serious problems (yet).
None of their opinions are relected on this site.

Is is possible that there are indeed thousands of satisfied customers out there who don't post on these forums because they don't have to?

Some thought on network shaping and the dreaded cap:
As one of those 'average' users who use the internet mainly for browsing and mainly after-hours, I tend to agree with Telkom that these policies can protect me from other users hogging MY bandwith with massive amounts of downloads.

That said, I have no real objections to using p2p file sharing apps, and maybe next week I might think Kazaa is the best thing since sliced cheese. If that happens, I would also be rightfully outraged by these ridiculous policies. I mean, how dare Telkom prescribe what I can and can't do with MY bandwidth!

It seems to me that both sides of the coin have reasonable arguments, and no matter which way Telkom goes, some users will have legitimate reasons to be upset. I suspect that if Telkom decides to stop doing the network shaping thing, these forum will be flooded by a completely new set of users complaining about slow browsing speeds.

Wouldn't it make more sense, instead of trying to convince Telkom to stop prioristing ports, to try and convince them to give us a choice?
Would it be technically possible for Telkom to split their ADSL bandwith into two sections, one with network shaping and one without, so that users can choose the best option for their specific requirements?

And yes, I know that overseas ADSL users don't have to deal with this crap, but until Telkom increases its own international bandwith, there's going to be a problem with congestion and we might as well try to find a solution that suits everybody.

Same applies to the 3GB cap. As long as Telkom has limits on their own bandwidth, and thousands of 'average' users, the caps are gonna be around. So instead of trying to get rid of the cap completely, it might be more productive to try and get more flexile options, ie pay more for 6GB, 10Gb, 20GB etc.

But to get back to original question...
From what I understand, for 'average' users looking for something faster than dial-up, ADSL has been great?
For business users looking for something faster and cheaper than ISDN, and for gamers, p2p apps and other 'power' users its been a nightmare?

For someone maybe sitting somewhere inbetween, is ADSL worth it or not?
Are there any people on this forum who ARE happy with their ADSL connections?
With their Marconi modems?
Anyone who's had good experiences with Telkom support or techies?

And please, I'm not looking for more posts about broken promises, false advertising, monopolies, best efforts, ICASA, or Dr Ivy. I've read all of them and agree with all of them. I have been warned. [

]

Chez

Whoop_Ass · Nov 2, 2003

Why not start a poll and see how many adsl customers are happy with the service.

FFS today frikin ADSL is down completly.
Not Slow or limited bandwidth.........
Totaly F%*#@D

Ahhh Telkom DSL high Speed Internet my ASS.

POS ADSL

Ye i am very happy with my ADSL[V]
At the end of the day we Pay good money for ADSL and all we require is the service of Broadband.
And not port shapping ,Capping etc.

Nevermind when you get capped you cant even surf, that dial up is better.

If Sex is a pain in the Arse you doing it WRONG!

alex · Nov 2, 2003

Its hard to say if its worth it , its worth it if u got tons of money and u can buy like 10 accounts then its good othere wise , i am starting to regret haveing it , and i am regreting swoping ISDN for it

jfrancis · Nov 2, 2003

Chez,

I suppose that only way that you'll find out is if you give it a try. I am still using ADSL because of the higher local bandwidth that it gives me to support local customers, and I have worked the price into my contracts.

Having said that, this mornings' scheduled outage that I was unaware of is not going to make me popular amongst my customers and I am going to have to reconsider the situation very carefully.

The reasons for so few users at MyADSL could be one of a few things:

1. Even though the site is advertised on search-engines and in other websites, I believe that there are still many that do not know of it's existence.

2. Registering and posting takes up time and effort. Especially when most people are not as verbose as you, I and many others in this forum.

3. I believe that many people who do come to the site remain as "lurkers", because of the previous point and because all that they can do is agree with what was said.

4. It would appear to people that we are addressing the issues already, so there's no need to get involved. Others see it as a futile exercise, because there's no other alternative. You yourself say " ...I'm not looking for more posts about broken promises, false advertising, monopolies, best efforts, ICASA, or Dr Ivy..."

IMHO, if people are not reminded of the fact, then people tend to forget. Especially when it's been around for so long (Pre-apartheid). This country's people have never enjoyed the benefits of de-regulated telecommunications. Analagous to this is the black citizens of this country who, until recently, didn't have a vote.

It is important that we have more people like you who have the guts to question things and not just accept things on face value.

So my advice is, get ADSL, see for yourself and then come & give us your views here on myadsl.

Flippit · Nov 2, 2003

When I first got ADSL, I thought it was the best thing ever! I used to get speeds of 4KB/s with my old 56k modem, and then suddenly with the introduction of ADSL, I could get speeds of 50KB/s! It has gone down a bit now - to an average of 40KB/s, but that's still good enough for me. I am not a Kazaa user either.

Once I discovered this forum, I found out the truth about what I should be getting, compared to what telkom say and the rest of the world gets, but it doesnt change the fact that ADSL is a hell of a lot better than 56k. Treat yourself.

Flippit

neobyte · Nov 2, 2003

I agree with Flippit. In terms of other solutions, ADSL (at the moment), it a very good solution. The main complaint with ADSL though is the 3gB cap. Have this removed and I doubt many people would be complaing as much. Sure, every ISP has down time every now and again.

Mux · Nov 2, 2003

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ChezAnwyne
 
Although its been invaluable in helping to understand some of the issues around port prioritisation, the 3GB cap, different modems, crappy service from Telkom, etc, its also been extremely frustrating in other areas.

Some of them are using the standard issue Marconi modem, some are not.
Some are with Telkom Internet, some are not.
Some are frequent Kazaa users, some are not.
Some have been hitting the 3GB cap, some never have.
All of them are fairly happy with their browsing and download speeds, with no serious problems (yet).
None of their opinions are relected on this site.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
ChezAnwyne, I think you summarised most of the issues. The way I see it is similar in nature.

1. ADSL is better than 56k dialup. If you need to be connected outside Call-more time or can afford the R1,000/month.
2. ADSL for most part is better than ISDN. If you need to be connected outside Call-more time or if you are not an online gamer (I have found no evidence so far than ADSL in this country is better for games than ISDN.)
3. ADSL is better than leased lines if you need a cheaper option or don't need a fixed IP address to host.
4. ADSL is better if network-shaping is not impacting you.

ADSL is probably better than anything else so far, proving you need the extra online time and bandwidth and have the extra bucks to spend.

What is generic regardless of ADSL:
1. (Lack of) Quality of Service from Telkom.
2. Lack of choice.
3. High pricing or rather OVER-prised.

What this forum mainly try to address is the fact that Telkom IS STILL a MONOPOLY and expects everyone just to bow down and worship them for supplying whatever service they deemed to be appropriate. The fact that Telkom treat their clients with disrespect and discontent. I hear the International bandwidth concern, but I have not enough knowledge to determine to what extend Telkom overplays this. This is one of the points being addressed with Telkom by this forum.
What we must support, and that is what I believe this forum is trying to achieve, is to make people aware of what World class standards mean and what implications it has on South Africa to fail those. Not all posts will be diplomatic or structured business-like, but what is important is that they have a place where they can express their views regardless.
What business opportunities is it taking away from us by the costs imposed on us? We can no longer just sit and hope the issues will disappear. Every voice (that cares about the future of this country) should be counted. Greed and arrogance have no place anymore.
We live in a global village where we compete internationally and no longer in the dark ages (or are we?). The share price of Telkom is rising due to their profit-making ability in a monopolistic environment. This is at the expense of the competitiveness of everyone else in the country that tries and carves out apiece internationally. These are just some serious questions the government have to consider.

So you see, for me it is a much deeper issue than just ADSL. ADSL was a promise and thus far has failed to live up to the international expectations it's meant to be. I might be completely wrong in my whole outlook, but that is the way I feel about it.

ChezAnwyne · Nov 2, 2003

Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies.

I think I will probably wait until December to see what Sentech has to offer, and then choose the best fit. Either way, I will share my experiences on this forum, good or bad.

One more question about the 3GB cap. There seems to be a perception that once this cap is removed, everyone will be much happier. But can we really assume this to be true?

The way I see it, Telkom only has a limited amount of international bandwidth. Whether their bandwidth is adequate is obviously another bone of centention (pun intended), but right now it means I will have to share my line with a large number of people. If all of those 'other' people are downloading files 24/7, it will negatively affect my own experience. So simply removing the cap may make some people happy, but it also might frustrate a whole different set of users.

Personally, I wouldn't mind a 3-5GB cap. Anyone wants more, they can pay for it. And I'm sure many people out there would settle for 1GB cap with a lower subscription fee.

Regards
Chez

microfast · Nov 2, 2003

Chez,
you wrote:
As one of those 'average' users who use the internet mainly for browsing and mainly after-hours, I tend to agree with Telkom that these policies can protect me from other users hogging MY bandwith with massive amounts of downloads

The Telkom policy for the CAP does not protect you from the other users hogging your bandwidth.

Those users with more money can just get extra 3GBs for R240.00 and swallow up your bandwidth.

Telkom can sell new accounts and these users will swallow up your bandwidth.

During business hours adsl works on average at 2X 56K dial-up speed.
This is the best measure of where the bandwidth problem lies.

Other countries like NZ can give you 12GB for R267.00 per month AND
there is no limit on national usage. If they can do it in NZ why not here ??

ChezAnwyne · Nov 2, 2003

Hi microfast

Yes, I know people can buy extra accounts, but since this costs money, and many people out there probably don't come close to the 3GB in the first place, I doubt if this option will be used by the majority of users. So while the cap doesn't protect bandwidth from all users, it does at least protect it from some. If the capped was dropped completely and all 10,000 users were downloading 100GBs a month, we would still have problem.

I believe bandwidth is a commodity and people should pay more if they want more (and have the option to pay less if they want less).

I also think that unless we know what Telkom and telco's in other countries are paying for their bandwidth, comparing their selling prices are completely pointless.

Same goes for comparing ADSL prices here with those overseas. I have seen many posts along the lines of "If they can get ASDL in the UK for R200 a month, why can't we?" People forget that ADSL have been around for a couple of years overseas and that when it started out is was a lot more expensive than it is now.

Some of the blame for the high costs must also be aimed at our local ISP's. Overseas many (most?) ISP's will give you a free modem with your subscription.
I know local ISP's can do nothing about the R680 Telkom line rental, but they haven't exactly been lining up to offer us ADSL accounts, including free modems, for say R100pm. The only ISP I've seen even mention alternative modems is Megalan, who's willing to sell you ZyXEL modems for about the same price of the Telkom modems.

Telkom is definitely not the only bad guys here. ISP's who are freely competing to provide ADSL accounts are rippoing us off as well.

Chez

microfast · Nov 3, 2003

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ChezAnwyne
 I also think that unless we know what Telkom and telco's in other countries are paying for their bandwidth, comparing their selling prices are completely pointless.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Chez,

Telkom, Mr. Steve White, has said that their bandwidth costs are high because of our geographic location.
NZ does not have a better geographic location so it would be safe to assume that the cost of bandwidth to NZ == ZA.

NZ does not have our population so Telkom have a bigger market.

NZ DOES have ISPs that can offer adsl - their own adsl - the last mile.
Telkom has been allowed to monopolise adsl and the last mile in ZA.

In NZ the Telecoms advertise ALL the ISPs on their website
Here Telkom is trying to kill the competing ISPs.

I believe that Telkom is paying exactly the same as NZ for international bandwidth -
and if they are not then something stinks.

There is absolutely no reason why Telkom cannot take national
bandwidth out of the Cap - NZ does so with Unlimited national usage.

So I believe that price comparisons are valid proof that Telkom
is using its monopoly to hold this country to ransom.

We are being srcewed over and we would be idiots to accept it.

The tide is turning

microfast · Nov 3, 2003

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ChezAnwyne
Some of the blame for the high costs must also be aimed at our local ISP's. ...they haven't exactly been lining up to offer us ADSL accounts, ...Telkom is definitely not the only bad guys here. ISP's who are freely competing to provide ADSL accounts are rippoing us off as well.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Chez,

I am not sure I understand what you are saying here :

I believe bandwidth is a commodity and people should pay more if they want more
This is just what telkom is saying - but I disagree - bandwidth is not a commodity -
All ISPs across the world see bandwidth as a necessity to provide a service to their customers.

If the capped was dropped completely and all 10,000 users were downloading 100GBs a month
This is how it is in the rest of the world

ISP's. ...they haven't exactly been lining up to offer us ADSL accounts
Would you line up to sell your competition's product ??
especially when the law prevents you from obtaining the product ??

Telkom is definitely not the only bad guys here -
How can any ISP but Telkom be the bad guy ??

Solar · Nov 3, 2003

Telkom SUX. And the whole thing about "buying another account"?: When my 3GB cap reaches, I don't want to fiddle with modem settings and change usernames & passwords... I just want another bloody 3GB of data transfers. Why in HELLS name can't telkom just extend your account to another 3GB.. I'll tell you.. because some lame-ass telkom programmer (i don't even think they can program - they probably contract someone) has to write an extra 5 lines of code to incorporate this..

They SUCK ASS.

alex · Nov 3, 2003

Thats what u get Telkom ADSL speed u see if it was someone elses speed then it would be faster ..... but this is Telkom speed they slow and thats all , in all aspects of life , i realy think they are enjoying all this insults and critasism , they probbley sitting there and loughting they pants off well i would be

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ADSL worth it or not?

ChezAnwyne

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Whoop_Ass

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alex

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jfrancis

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Flippit

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neobyte

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Mux

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ChezAnwyne

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microfast

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ChezAnwyne

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microfast

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microfast

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Solar

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alex

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