Advice about career change... .NET Developer

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CVRChameleon

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Hi guys, I have been working in admin jobs [debtors / creditors etc], which I am currently unhappy with, and want to change to a career as a C#/VB.NET developer.

A year and a half ago I completed MCPD ..Microsoft Certified Professional Developer courses [70-536 / 70-505 - 70-563], but dont have a university degree or anything similar. Unfortunately those tests are just choose A/B/C/D/E type questions, where all you have to do is analyse the small block of code and come up with the answer.

I started learning more than the text books when I started creating small projects [most unfinished in some part], in VB.NET or C#.

So what I want to ask is how do I proceed in getting a job in this field as a guy with no working experience as a developer? Most jobs I see requires at least 2 years working experience... I have applied for quite a few jobs but never hear anything. [And for me the tag 'Junior Developer' sounds misleading .... from 1 years XP to 5 years XP ??]

Thanks ..appreciate some advice please :p
 
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With no university degree backing your new career, you'll unfortunately have to settle for quite a low entry salary. You can expect to be on that salary for probably the whole 2 years while you build up experience, unless you quickly prove yourself to be a real asset to the organization. That, however, is hugely dependent on the employer. Some people will try and misuse your skills and "cheap labour" and won't mind letting you go when you get fed up with it all.

I don't have any other meaningful advice for you, unfortunately. The job market isn't at its best right now - just keep sending out those job applications and hope/pray for the best.
 
Myself and many of my friends have started working recently in IT. All of us from University of Pretoria with either a BSc IT/CS or BSc CS (hons) degree.

None of us had trouble getting interviews or jobs . My one friend started looking for work late, 3rd Jan 2011, and 3 days later he received a call about an interview for a .NET developer, the day after he went for the interview and another days later they called him with an offer for R20K total cost to company (before tax), he has a BSc CS (which took him 5 years to get). I didn't even go for an interview, the place I work for are desperately looking for people, I knew someone there and I was hired by the boss of the boss of the person I knew after talking with said boss for 5 minutes.

No-one I talked to searched for a very long time, most of us don't have much experience and salary ranged from R15-20K before tax.

So there is plenty of demand, you'll just have to send out a CV EVERYWHERE! (Shotgun effect)

Just ignore the whole 2 years experience thing. The truth is this, there is a shortage. The company I work for now need lots of people but they have trouble hiring because of BEE. My friend told me the other day that her manager is pissed off because she forwarded a job offering from another place to a bunch of us. Her boss saw the email and got upset because they need people and she is forwarding other places job offerings.

Everyone I talk to right now tells me they need IT people. So there is work!
 
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No offence to @CVRChameleon but you can't really compare BSc IT/CS or BSc CS (hons) degree with a MCPD + no experience.

I have to agree with @FarligOpptreden, get raped as slave labour build up experience climb that ladder.
 
dequadin said:
No offence to @CVRChameleon but you can't really compare BSc IT/CS or BSc CS (hons) degree with a MCPD + no experience.
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I agree, but I think that there are definitely places desperate enough to hire people without degrees. Even if you do get raped initially.

How bad could the salary be? I mean if a Uni graduate gets 15 then surely if you get 6 without a degree initially that isn't too bad (hell I know MANY jobs that pay less).
 
dequadin said:
No offence to @CVRChameleon but you can't really compare BSc IT/CS or BSc CS (hons) degree with a MCPD + no experience.

I have to agree with @FarligOpptreden, get raped as slave labour build up experience climb that ladder.
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^ This. Without a degree or experience, you are really unlikely to have the goods to deliver a project. Even those desperate for developers aren't going to hire someone with no experience and no degree. Two options: 1. Send CV out in any case and take the best you can get (be prepared for a few no's and at the very best, a low salary for the first while) 2. Study further and do part time work (anything to get experience), then try again. Some companies might take you on if you are in the process of studying (again, won't be a high salary - but the experience would be worth it).

Either way, don't give up. It may be tough, but if you are really set on it, you can make it.
 
FarligOpptreden said:
With no university degree backing your new career, you'll unfortunately have to settle for quite a low entry salary. You can expect to be on that salary for probably the whole 2 years while you build up experience, unless you quickly prove yourself to be a real asset to the organization. That, however, is hugely dependent on the employer. Some people will try and misuse your skills and "cheap labour" and won't mind letting you go when you get fed up with it all.

I don't have any other meaningful advice for you, unfortunately. The job market isn't at its best right now - just keep sending out those job applications and hope/pray for the best.
Click to expand...

Yeah I thought without a uni degree I would be at quite a disadvantage... as for 'cheap labour' ... I know exactly what you mean; any career has these and I have been working for quite a few of them, hence my tiredness for something I dont enjoy doing and getting ripped off too..


Gnome said:
Myself and many of my friends have started working recently in IT. All of us from University of Pretoria with either a BSc IT/CS or BSc CS (hons) degree.

None of us had trouble getting interviews or jobs . My one friend started looking for work late, 3rd Jan 2011, and 3 days later he received a call about an interview for a .NET developer, the day after he went for the interview and another days later they called him with an offer for R20K total cost to company (before tax), he has a BSc CS (which took him 5 years to get). I didn't even go for an interview, the place I work for are desperately looking for people, I knew someone there and I was hired by the boss of the boss of the person I knew after talking with said boss for 5 minutes.

No-one I talked to searched for a very long time, most of us don't have much experience and salary ranged from R15-20K before tax.

So there is plenty of demand, you'll just have to send out a CV EVERYWHERE! (Shotgun effect)

Just ignore the whole 2 years experience thing. The truth is this, there is a shortage. The company I work for now need lots of people but they have trouble hiring because of BEE. My friend told me the other day that her manager is pissed off because she forwarded a job offering from another place to a bunch of us. Her boss saw the email and got upset because they need people and she is forwarding other places job offerings.

Everyone I talk to right now tells me they need IT people. So there is work!
Click to expand...

Cool thanks about the experience thing, like I said I tried applying...no luck yet. Do universities refer graduates to companies as a starting point? I would appreciate some contacts [if possible]... Thanks!

dequadin said:
No offence to @CVRChameleon but you can't really compare BSc IT/CS or BSc CS (hons) degree with a MCPD + no experience.

I have to agree with @FarligOpptreden, get raped as slave labour build up experience climb that ladder.
Click to expand...

Point taken, but where did I say that I am comparing it with BSc degree? If I had the opportunity years ago to go to university, I would have gone for sure. I am so willing to climb the ladder IF I can get an opportunity. I did MCPD to teach myself .NET and like I said I did learn more while doing some projects after I completed the MCPD ... the tests imo are kind of useless in testing programming skills.
 
CVRChameleon said:
Do universities refer graduates to companies as a starting point?
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Institutions like CTI do but Universities (UP, UCT, Stellenbosch, ect.) don't. Universities undoubtedly produce the best developers but they don't help you get a job. Many people I knew while studying stopped because they got jobs while studying (as developers).

UP for example did have a career day every year (or twice a year). During those days most companies provide incentives if you provide your details (for example they'll give you biltong/toys/etc and then you fill out your degree, year of study, email and phone number). During our final year project day many companies also give you their cards and ask you to send your CV or take down your details and contact you.

Everyone I know from University got jobs either VIA sending out CVs or after being approached during career days and such. It's about 50/50, half I know got approached, half got it by sending out CV.

CVRChameleon said:
I would appreciate some contacts [if possible]... Thanks!
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Hehe, there isn't really any insider thing going on. The University might forward the occasional job seeking advert (2 a year, maybe 3) but it's hardly worth mentioning. As I said, most of us got jobs either because we were approached on career days (or project day) or afterward when we sent our CVs to a couple of places. Nothing under the table.

The place I work for now only take people with degrees from recognized SA Universities, so even if I gave you the details it would be pointless. Some places do have that policy, especially financial institutions (banks, insurance, etc.) but most places don't. Generally if it is a company that does development projects for other companies they will take people without degrees, whereas places with in house IT departments for their own enterprise back end systems like banks and so forth will only take people with degrees.

But hell I could be talking out of my ass, that was my impression tho. In our office area everyone has degrees, even admin staff.
 
CVRChameleon said:
Point taken, but where did I say that I am comparing it with BSc degree? If I had the opportunity years ago to go to university, I would have gone for sure.
Click to expand...

You didn't, my comment was aimed at those implying getting a software job is easy. I see the conversation has moved on since then ;) Sorry if the wasn't clear.

One thing I would say is try get involved in or start you own open source project. If someone has something like that on their CV I'd definitely check out what they can do. Building up Stackover reputation is also something you can try.

LinkedIn also has many software related groups and discussions, sign up to those and contribute i.e. get noticed. There are often job offers posted in the SA groups.

Having a degree proves you're not completely incompetent, you're going to have to find other ways of doing this.
 
dequadin said:
Having a degree proves you're not completely incompetent, you're going to have to find other ways of doing this.
Click to expand...

You did summarize it quite well with that, even though I think Im not incompetent, there is not really any way anyone else could determine it with my completed courses alone. Thanks for your input!
 
Gnome said:
I agree, but I think that there are definitely places desperate enough to hire people without degrees. Even if you do get raped initially.

How bad could the salary be? I mean if a Uni graduate gets 15 then surely if you get 6 without a degree initially that isn't too bad (hell I know MANY jobs that pay less).
Click to expand...

I know of a guy who got 15 ctc for his first job, with no qualifications, no cv, only experience.... ;)
 
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