Advice: Debt collector

Brawler

Brawler

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Hi all.
I need some advice, I don't really know how these things work.
Before I'm painted with that brush, until today I thought I had exactly zero debt.

I was overseas in January and fell ill and referred to hospital for some tests. Nothing serious and discharged same day. While being discharged I went to pay at hospital and they said its fine as my insurance will cover it (I handed over the insurance details before admission). At the time I was overjoyed...

Out of the blue I get a call from some rude **** from "PIENAAR" debt collectors saying I owe R7k. He sent me the details and its from the hospital visit (copy of invoice, copy of passport all included so seems legit). Up until this point I've had zero calls or emails regarding this account.

The hospital is in the Netherlands and the debt collector seems to be South African. Do I have any options? I've got a spotless credit record and don't want any blemishes. The actual bill is quite a bit less than the debt collectors amount.
Contact the hospital?
Ignore debt collector?
Pay them and claim from insurance?
Pay them and take it as school fees?

Seriously crap situation. R7k isn't going to bankrupt me but still, its not an amount to laugh off.
 
Contact Hospital direct and if legit settle direct with them. Ignore Pienaar d!ckhead. Then claim from Isurance if possible.

Cant see how our credit act can allow a listing for international debt?
 
Brawler said:
Hi all.
I need some advice, I don't really know how these things work.
Before I'm painted with that brush, until today I thought I had exactly zero debt.

I was overseas in January and fell ill and referred to hospital for some tests. Nothing serious and discharged same day. While being discharged I went to pay at hospital and they said its fine as my insurance will cover it (I handed over the insurance details before admission). At the time I was overjoyed...

Out of the blue I get a call from some rude **** from "PIENAAR" debt collectors saying I owe R7k. He sent me the details and its from the hospital visit (copy of invoice, copy of passport all included so seems legit). Up until this point I've had zero calls or emails regarding this account.

The hospital is in the Netherlands and the debt collector seems to be South African. Do I have any options? I've got a spotless credit record and don't want any blemishes. The actual bill is quite a bit less than the debt collectors amount.
Contact the hospital?
Ignore debt collector?
Pay them and claim from insurance?
Pay them and take it as school fees?

Seriously crap situation. R7k isn't going to bankrupt me but still, its not an amount to laugh off.
Click to expand...

Contact the hospital. Find out why they didn't claim from insurance. If they did claim, why was it rejected?
If the claim was rejected, take it up with your insurance.
If you feel both the insurance and the hospital are right, then try settle with the hospital directly and bypass the debt collector.
But try find out from the debt collector and/or the hospital how you ended up getting handed over without prior contact.
 
Freshy-ZN said:
Cant see how our credit act can allow a listing for international debt?
Click to expand...

Easily. All debt collectors effectively purchase a loan book from a creditor at cents on the Rand and then recover as much as possible. That's how this system works. The debt effectively gets transferred to the new debt book owner.
 
Yup, contact the hospital directly and if the bill is legit then pay them and tell this pienaar tosser to go and fsck himself unpleasantly.
 
pinball wizard said:
Easily. All debt collectors effectively purchase a loan book from a creditor at cents on the Rand and then recover as much as possible. That's how this system works. The debt effectively gets transferred to the new debt book owner.
Click to expand...

Its not RSA debt and therefore not subject to RSA legislation? Probably why the Pienaar numbnuts goes straight to aggressive mode- to scare the person into paying.
 
Last edited:
pinball wizard said:
Easily. All debt collectors effectively purchase a loan book from a creditor at cents on the Rand and then recover as much as possible. That's how this system works. The debt effectively gets transferred to the new debt book owner.
Click to expand...
But why would the op's debt have been sold so quickly and over borders like that. What jurisdiction does a debt collector in Sa even have to recover debt incurred in a foreign country?
 
Really tell him to hit the road, get a restraining order...
 
Ignore them and move on.

I have never heard of cross border debt collection ever. This sounds like the debt collector is taking a big chance on scaring you into paying. If they phone again simply state I do not owe this and if they keep phoning you will press charges again them for harassment.

They will not pester you further.

Alternatively contact your medical aid and find out exactly why a debt collector is contacting you on a medical bill. This would get you the most direct answer as to what is going on here. If your medical aid settled the bill as you expected to be covered then this is straight up low ball debt collecting hoping on getting paid using fear.

Is this the firm who contacted you ? http://www.pienaarsithole.co.za

They list themself as international debt collectors, wonder how much truth is in that.
 
pinball wizard said:
Easily. All debt collectors effectively purchase a loan book from a creditor at cents on the Rand and then recover as much as possible. That's how this system works. The debt effectively gets transferred to the new debt book owner.
Click to expand...
Yeah this is what I thought but wasn't certain. Hospital probably doesn't care now as the collector now 'owns' the debt. Such BS though as the amount is now a couple grand higher and there is NO evidence that they contacted me. I've reached out to the hospital and had no response yet.

Sweevo said:
Sounds like said hospital had had a security breach and your details were leaked. First step is to block all comms from Pine Pienaar and co. Then call the hospital and ask them to please explain how some random debt collector was given your details, given GDPR and all that... it’s a European hospital, they have an obligation to protect your information.
Click to expand...
Yeah I thought about this. The 'Note' with the hospital letter head even has procedure codes on it.


John Tempus said:
Ignore them and move on.

I have never heard of cross border debt collection ever. This sounds like the debt collector is taking a big chance on scaring you into paying. If they phone again simply state I do not owe this and if they keep phoning you will press charges again them for harassment.

They will not pester you further.

Alternatively contact your medical aid and find out exactly why a debt collector is contacting you on a medical bill. This would get you the most direct answer as to what is going on here. If your medical aid settled the bill as you expected to be covered then this is straight up low ball debt collecting hoping on getting paid using fear.

Is this the firm who contacted you ? http://www.pienaarsithole.co.za

They list themself as international debt collectors, wonder how much truth is in that.
Click to expand...
Yeah that seems like them. Also never heard of cross boarder debt collection.
Look, I don't mind paying the hospital and taking it on with insurance but its complete BS that I am handed over to debt collectors and charged extra fees (and potentially worse) for something I was completely unaware of.
 
Brawler said:
Yeah this is what I thought but wasn't certain. Hospital probably doesn't care now as the collector now 'owns' the debt. Such BS though as the amount is now a couple grand higher and there is NO evidence that they contacted me. I've reached out to the hospital and had no response yet.


Yeah I thought about this. The 'Note' with the hospital letter head even has procedure codes on it.



Yeah that seems like them. Also never heard of cross boarder debt collection.
Look, I don't mind paying the hospital and taking it on with insurance but its complete BS that I am handed over to debt collectors and charged extra fees (and potentially worse) for something I was completely unaware of.
Click to expand...

The hospital should still have records of your insurance/treatment , ring them up and ask them to email you the records. It should clearly show that they never received payment and that they reported you to some international debt collector. Just deal with the origin.
 
I had a similar incident where I out of the blue received a call from a debt collector about an amount I owed a local hospital from a few years previously. I was pretty stunned as I had NO IDEA that I owed them anything. I was pretty angry because the amount due was now way higher than the original amount.

I eventually contacted the hospital and asked why they hadn't contacted me at all. They said they had sent 3 letters in the post and I hadn't responded. As I had moved house, I obviously didn't receive them. When I asked the hospital why they hadn't attempted to contact my via my email or phone number I was told that that this was not their policy. Their standard policy was to send the bill 3 times in the mail, and then hand it over if no payment received. Insane!

I eventually told the debt collector to get lost, and paid the original amt to the hospital directly, and that was the end of it. Just very silly that a 30 second phone call could have prevented the whole issue...
 
jboyx989 said:
I had a similar incident where I out of the blue received a call from a debt collector about an amount I owed a local hospital from a few years previously. I was pretty stunned as I had NO IDEA that I owed them anything. I was pretty angry because the amount due was now way higher than the original amount.

I eventually contacted the hospital and asked why they hadn't contacted me at all. They said they had sent 3 letters in the post and I hadn't responded. As I had moved house, I obviously didn't receive them. When I asked the hospital why they hadn't attempted to contact my via my email or phone number I was told that that this was not their policy. Their standard policy was to send the bill 3 times in the mail, and then hand it over if no payment received. Insane!

I eventually told the debt collector to get lost, and paid the original amt to the hospital directly, and that was the end of it. Just very silly that a 30 second phone call could have prevented the whole issue...
Click to expand...

If 3 years had elapsed, you wouldn't have had to pay anything as the debt would have prescribed
 
pinball wizard said:
Easily. All debt collectors effectively purchase a loan book from a creditor at cents on the Rand and then recover as much as possible. That's how this system works. The debt effectively gets transferred to the new debt book owner.
Click to expand...

This is incorrect. Many debt collectors work for commission - a percentage of debt collected. Most actually don't buy books.
And when they do buy the book and the debt is ceded to the debt collector, law still applies. There's no magic reset button. They cannot list a debtor on any bureau for non-payment under the circumstances described by the OP.

Sweevo said:
Sounds like said hospital had had a security breach and your details were leaked. First step is to block all comms from Pine Pienaar and co. Then call the hospital and ask them to please explain how some random debt collector was given your details, given GDPR and all that... it’s a European hospital, they have an obligation to protect your information.
Click to expand...
This is pretty implausible.
 
GDPR is big in The EU. report them when this saga is over.
 
Sweevo said:
What is implausible exactly?
That the hospital be expected to operate according to GDPR?

I’m not suggesting they were hacked, I’m suggesting that as a private individual it’s quite reasonable to assume that they had been given that personal information including treatment data has been “handed out”. This has nothing to do with the users POV but the hospitals. They are obliged to keep personal data safe.
Click to expand...

Your exact words:
Sounds like said hospital had had a security breach and your details were leaked.
Click to expand...
This isn't a breach. They handed over the file for collection.
 
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