Advice Millwright to Software Developer

notayoba said:
I say stay where you are. There is a large, and growing shortage of artisans. Worldwide.

I've been a software developer for 20 years now. It becomes boring... Right now the pay and job prospects are good, but at the rate youngsters are coming onboard, I'm not so confident about the future.
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Youngsters look at the pay and think it's glamorous work. The dev YouTubers are slightly to blame. I went to a bootcamp a few years ago and very few of my classmates are still in development. Even people my age (22), who finished a IT related degree are not always going into any kind of development.
 
randomcat said:
Youngsters look at the pay and think it's glamorous work. The dev YouTubers are slightly to blame. I went to a bootcamp a few years ago and very few of my classmates are still in development. Even people my age (22), who finished a IT related degree are not always going into any kind of development.
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Yeah it can get brutally boring and repetitive... But sometimes it's not bad. I'm always looking to get out (but then I look at what the alternative pays.... and I fire up visual studio again). Very few to none of the people that studied with me are still in development. Most go into management or totally burn out and become mushroom eating shamans.

I've tried the management track. Not for me. I hate dealing with other people's drama, and that's essentially the definition of management. Also very hard to move jobs to something that pays the same or better when you are on the management track. As a dev I can get a new job that pays the same or more, in less than a day. (After my first job it's never taken more than about a morning to get a new one)
 
notayoba said:
Yeah it can get brutally boring and repetitive... But sometimes it's not bad. I'm always looking to get out (but then I look at what the alternative pays.... and I fire up visual studio again). Very few to none of the people that studied with me are still in development. Most go into management or totally burn out and become mushroom eating shamans.

I've tried the management track. Not for me. I hate dealing with other people's drama, and that's essentially the definition of management. Also very hard to move jobs to something that pays the same or better when you are on the management track. As a dev I can get a new job that pays the same or more, in less than a day. (After my first job it's never taken more than about a morning to get a new one)
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Yeah I'm on my way to becoming a mushroom eating shaman!

I think the thing I eventually realised about software engineering is that it is just a job. Yes, I don't always love it. Sometimes it is boring. But it also pays well and is relatively low stress compared to some other careers.

Accounting and law both pay very well, BUT you have to work your butt off, and you can't just up and move to another country. With software engineering, I can work in any country in the world with no need for certifications, get paid a lot of money, and have manageable stress levels.

I am trying to move in the management direction now actually. My company is supportive and there is a lot of room for growth as a manager. Well, lots of room for growth either staying technical or becoming managerial, but I think I'll be good as a manager.
 
Muis95 said:
Exposure to this has strengthened my interest in programming even more so than before I started millwrighting in positions likes PLC programming, Systems Integrating, Automation/Controls engineering and software development and I want to pivot my career in that direction fulltime, staying as a millwright I'll only do plc programming sometimes. All the positions I mentioned above would be a more natural progression from millwright than soft dev and would include a lot of programming although software development interests me most at the moment.
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I’m curious to know what you define as ‘software development’, and how that differs from programming.
 
DA-LION-619 said:
I’m curious to know what you define as ‘software development’, and how that differs from programming.
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What I mean when I talk about programming related to my career I mean primitive programming for machines like ladder programming just to get machines to run.

When I talk about being interested in soft dev I more so refer to programming/building apps and programs using fleshed out languages from the ground up and not programming some shitty factory machine in a crappy enviroment.

This might not be technically correct but is what I mean
 
Magnum said:
A little Project for the weekend.

When you have 2 LED's in parallel, Connected Anode to Cathode.

1: How do you switch either led on using only one Digital pin on the Arduino.
2: How do you switch both off. Using same layout. (No cheating).

Electrical drawing with correct component calculations, And brief explanation on how the Sketch should look.

I dare you.
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I'll have a go at that I'll pm you when I'm done
 
Priapus said:
Circle of life, really. I see new young mobile developers enter the field all the time and that is a good thing to me. We need more developers and we need more people coding. Sometimes those youngsters, with their fresh ideas, lack of experience, ask me questions that change my view on things or I learn something from them at times. Equally exciting stuff.
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This is the only thing that scares me a bit. Alot of people want to get into developing although not all of them end up doing it. How is the market really ?

Is it flooded and how does outsourcing affect it. I've read about guys complaining their jobs getting outsourced to guys from third world countries for a lot cheaper. We being a third world country is a advantage but do our companies out source to places like india,brazil etc
 
notayoba said:
I say stay where you are. There is a large, and growing shortage of artisans. Worldwide.

I've been a software developer for 20 years now. It becomes boring... Right now the pay and job prospects are good, but at the rate youngsters are coming onboard, I'm not so confident about the future.
Click to expand...
This might be true but we have similair issues. The pay for qualified artisans in ratio with what we have to deal with isn't that great. I see plenty of ads where they want qualified electricians,diesel mechanics with 8 years experience on everything under the sun but then offer 15k-20k

There is suposedly a big shortage of skilled artisans but theres plenty of qualified artisans without work the way factories close down etc
 
Muis95 said:
This is the only thing that scares me a bit. Alot of people want to get into developing although not all of them end up doing it. How is the market really ?
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Well here in SA, tech support and software/web dev skills are in shortage. But it again depends on what you specialize in as @Priapus said. But if you can not find a job in SA per se, you can always look overseas (remote or you physically go) or you could take the veteran difficulty and start freelancing online without having prior job experience.

solidariteit.co.za

The talent shortages in the South African labour market - talent shortage

The top 10 skills shortages or most difficult positions to fill in South Africa include the following jobs/careers.
solidariteit.co.za solidariteit.co.za

Citation for the shortage I mentioned (taken from the 2020 Critical Skills List by the Department of Home Affairs):
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I downloaded the list from this article
 
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Muis95 said:
This is the only thing that scares me a bit. Alot of people want to get into developing although not all of them end up doing it. How is the market really ?

Is it flooded and how does outsourcing affect it. I've read about guys complaining their jobs getting outsourced to guys from third world countries for a lot cheaper. We being a third world country is a advantage but do our companies out source to places like india,brazil etc
Click to expand...

Depends on what sector you're in. I don't know about the other guys doing real dev work as @Hamster tells me. But in my world, iOS developer specifically, this country has a massive shortage of. I get head hunted all the time. In fact I am entertaining a new opportunity that approached me this week.
 
Muis95 said:
What I mean when I talk about programming related to my career I mean primitive programming for machines like ladder programming just to get machines to run.

When I talk about being interested in soft dev I more so refer to programming/building apps and programs using fleshed out languages from the ground up and not programming some shitty factory machine in a crappy enviroment.

This might not be technically correct but is what I mean
Click to expand...
I see ladder programming vs block programming the same as object oriented vs functional programming. It’s all programming.

Pragmatically you’re going to be paid for what you can do, that basically answers all your concerns.
How many people can actually program a PLC?
Can it be done remotely?
Can it be outsourced?
How much are you willing to suffer?
 
Slightly off-topic. Been trying to find my old post I made in 2013 asking a similar question. Were posts from that era purged?
 
Muis95 said:
I've read about guys complaining their jobs getting outsourced to guys from third world countries for a lot cheaper. We being a third world country is a advantage but do our companies out source to places like india,brazil etc
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It's not so easy to outsource corporate in house type dev work. Most of the problems require domain specific knowledge and that takes time to aquire. The other part of the equation is that it's not much cheaper (if at all) to get an Indian dev vs a South African one.

I've worked with Indian devs before (actually shared accommodation for a couple of weeks at a client's site).

According to him he worked for a mid size dev company. 'only' 5000 developers. There is no way in hell they actually get to understand your problem, they just churn out code and send invoices. If you are very good at writing spec docs, it can actually work. But to try and take an step by step iterative approach and evolve a solution to fit the problem... not so much, it's a no go to try and use them.

In fact quite a bit of dev gets outsourced to South Africa from the states.
 
Priapus said:
Slightly off-topic. Been trying to find my old post I made in 2013 asking a similar question. Were posts from that era purged?
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Wanting to move into development - which area?

Howzit guys, So, I want to get out of the I.T field. Currently, I am a field technician. Last year, I played with some iOS mobile development and enjoyed it but since I no longer have a Macbook, I cannot carry on with it. However I will get another one soon My question is...
mybroadband.co.za mybroadband.co.za
Lookin for this maybe?
 
PrimeSteak said:

Wanting to move into development - which area?

Howzit guys, So, I want to get out of the I.T field. Currently, I am a field technician. Last year, I played with some iOS mobile development and enjoyed it but since I no longer have a Macbook, I cannot carry on with it. However I will get another one soon My question is...
mybroadband.co.za mybroadband.co.za
Lookin for this maybe?
Click to expand...
You legend!

Yes!

That's where it started.
 
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