Advice Millwright to Software Developer

[DA-LION-619]

It says academic.

So where is the no professional experience required?

It's literally a job description for "Software Development Engineer Graduate" - that's exactly what they want. More than "hello world" (and yes, I get that you mean the more general "sample code" style)? Did you actually do a degree - wondering how you would make such a ridiculous assertion?

Which is what I pointed out, yes it’s a graduate role then you mentioned syntax?

The informal description is boiler plate, the actual experience required is exactly what is listed under the "experience" section. The rest is desired/preferred skills, or skills requirements that only apply to those with work experience.

No. You can’t just declare the job description as boilerplate.
It’s like ignoring the level 2.

???

Read the OP.
What does programming a PLC have in common with comp sci?
Take your time.

 

[cguy]

So where is the no professional experience required?

This is getting kinda ridiculous. It says academic OR professional, hence, if you have academic experience in the language, you don't need professional experience.

Which is what I pointed out, yes it’s a graduate role then you mentioned syntax?

You mentioned syntax - post #138.

No. You can’t just declare the job description as boilerplate.
It’s like ignoring the level 2.

You can't just declare the actual "experience", listed under the "experience section", as not the "experience" they actually want.

The part I'm saying is boilerplate follows the text "We believe that our people are our biggest asset, and we grow them at every opportunity." for Pete's sake.

FYI, I joined my first company at ... Level 3.

Read the OP.
What does programming a PLC have in common with comp sci?
Take your time.

Why should it have anything in common? He wants to do something else - specifically, more general Software Development.

 

[DA-LION-619]

Why should it have anything in common? He wants to do something else - specifically, more general Software Development.

As said, you can learn to code without doing a degree, and even find some work, but a software engineer with a degree can typical do a different type of development (one that requires all those fundamentals). The latter is typically better both career wise and in terms of “challenging” problems, however, it’s not for everyone. If your inclination was to do an engineering degree though, it probably does make sense for you.

If you don’t understand the question, you’ll give the wrong answer.

You could say you gave a boilerplate answer.

 

[cguy]

If you don’t understand the question, you’ll give the wrong answer.

You could say you gave a boilerplate answer.

Rather than being obtuse about it, how about just pointing out what you believe was misunderstood?

 

[DA-LION-619]

Rather than being obtuse about it, how about just pointing out what you believe was misunderstood?

I already did to the OP, which was answered.
@Magnum and @hjst45 provided better input to the context of the thread.

 

[cguy]

I already did to the OP, which was answered.
@Magnum and @hjst45 provided better input to the context of the thread.

Looks to me that you didn't understand the question or the rational for my answer. To quote your response - it's most certainly not "all programming", which is why one should try to qualify up, if possible. I do agree with the other guy's that perhaps if the OP’s current expertise could be leveraged that would be optimal, but it sounds as though the OP just doesn’t want to do that type of work at all.

 

[Muis95]

Looks to me that you didn't understand the question or the rational for my answer. To quote your response - it's most certainly not "all programming", which is why one should try to qualify up, if possible. I do agree with the other guy's that perhaps if the OP’s current expertise could be leveraged that would be optimal, but it sounds as though the OP just doesn’t want to do that type of work at all.

This it it , sorry if my OP was a bit all over the place or unclear.

My question was this " In my current field my experience can be leveraged to a more programming type of role instead of staying on tools, how would I do that ? Which @Magnum , @hjst45 and @DA-LION-619 answered.

HOWEVER I do not like engineering or the environment that comes with it so studying towards Electrical/mechatronics degree for a more programming type role would be tedious.

My second question was is there a way I can pivot my current field towards a more "general software development" role as @cguy said. My thinking was if I can program PLC and arduino's etc and be good at troubleshooting the skills would transfer over to "general software development" and I would have an easier time transferring careers. If not maybe I should do a Comp Sci degree part time later on or as most members suggested to self study and do short courses.

I'm still not sure which route I should go but in the meantime I'll be doing some stuff from short courses like CS50 and on Coursera and getting a feel for it. The first language I want to learn is python as I already started messing around with it last year.

 

[cguy]

Just to throw it out there: FPGA and software integration is also a big area these days and will definitely become a bigger as CPU acceleration slows down.

 

[Hamster]

BBD: https://bbdsoftware.com/jobs/c-engineer-4/

· BSc Computer Science or similar tertiary qualification
· Proficiency in C# with +/-3 years solid exposure at an academic or professional level

If I was a betting man I'd say this s just fluff. When I worked for them plenty of guys not meeting this criteria came through.

On the other hand company culture etc. change fast. Was deployed at a client and almost never saw the office. When that stint ended after about three years the BBD office was an almost "foreign" place. I even remember one exec telling me that it's the nature of the beast when there is rapid growth in a company.

Would be sad if they changed into a degree chasing outfit, I always liked them

 

[gboy]

I feel software development is like this.

Driving a car is one thing, knowing how a car works enables you to drive it to it's full potential, efficiency and productively.

Kind of like knowing how clutch works, and what's it's actual function is, enables you to control it much better, than just being told to push down change gear and release slowly.

2 week bootcamp, moped rider.

Proper qualification, formula 3 driver.

Proper qualification and experience, Formula 1 driver.

Not to say a moped rider can't drive a Formula 1, exceptions happen. But it's going to be difficult to go from a Vespa to a Louis Hamilton. ( he is a Crying baby, I know)

 

[DA-LION-619]

My second question was is there a way I can pivot my current field towards a more "general software development" role as @cguy said. My thinking was if I can program PLC and arduino's etc and be good at troubleshooting the skills would transfer over to "general software development" and I would have an easier time transferring careers. If not maybe I should do a Comp Sci degree part time later on or as most members suggested to self study and do short courses.

It's a different mindset but just as expansive based on my limited understanding.
I don't know of many people in "general software development" using an Arduino to program a microcontroller or someone that can program all PLCs because Schneider, Mitsubishi, Siemens, Rockwell etc. differ in some way.

You can move to a different level of abstraction, an 'integrator' role. A 'smart' factory but still a factory.

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If your pay isn't bad now, is it going to be less than a full-time entry role into "general software development" in a couple years?

I'm still not sure which route I should go but in the meantime I'll be doing some stuff from short courses like CS50 and on Coursera and getting a feel for it. The first language I want to learn is python as I already started messing around with it last year.

Read the The Zen of Python

 

[DA-LION-619]

I feel software development is like this.

Driving a car is one thing, knowing how a car works enables you to drive it to it's full potential, efficiency and productively.

Kind of like knowing how clutch works, and what's it's actual function is, enables you to control it much better, than just being told to push down change gear and release slowly.

2 week bootcamp, moped rider.

Proper qualification, formula 3 driver.

Proper qualification and experience, Formula 1 driver.

Not to say a moped rider can't drive a Formula 1, exceptions happen. But it's going to be difficult to go from a Vespa to a Louis Hamilton. ( he is a Crying baby, I know)

Where would a mechanic fit into this analogy?

 

[gboy]

Where would a mechanic fit into this analogy?

Networks, lol.

But it's a different thing. Louis Hamilton, probably does not know how to change a wheel bearing. It's a lot like a programmer, not needing to know how electrons move through the silicone substrate of a microchip.

You know it's there, have a rough idea. But it's a completely different field.

 

[DA-LION-619]

Networks

Surely if you know where all the parts in a car go, how to fix them, how to test them and know they’re working correctly, that person is guaranteed to be a great track driver?

 

[gboy]

Surely if you know where all the parts in a car go, how to fix them, how to test them and know they’re working correctly, that person is guaranteed to be a great track driver?

Then why is all the mechanics at a fromula 1 race not backup drivers.

 

[gboy]

Edit, different specialty. That's is why the Mechanics at F1 races are not Backup drivers.

Or a brain surgeon, can't do a heart transplant. Yes they both know in good detail how it works. But the refinement of skills is better.

Edit again sorry:

A brain surgeon knows what to do if there is or to prevent heart failer during a tumor removal.

And a Heart surgeon knows what to do / prevent Nerological problems

 

[DA-LION-619]

Edit, different specialty. That's is why the Mechanics at F1 races are not Backup drivers.

Or a brain surgeon, can't do a heart transplant. Yes they both know in good detail how it works. But the refinement of skills is better.

Yup, judging a fish on it’s ability to climb a tree to paraphrase.

 

[Muis95]

If your pay isn't bad now, is it going to be less than a full-time entry role into "general software development" in a couple years?

I have no idea, once I qualify my pay will be around 12k-14k without post apprentice experience. What is entry-level dev pay from your experience ?

 

[DA-LION-619]

I have no idea, once I qualify my pay will be around 12k-14k without post apprentice experience. What is entry-level dev pay from your experience ?

My question was more around not limiting yourself to one path or something general, rather exploring a combination.
My understanding of Instrumentation as a field comes from those who as a side gig do embedded hardware, low level stuff is a unique skillset.

You can find pay stats here => https://www.offerzen.com/reports/software-developer-south-africa/#careers

As an example, creating Android apps compared to creating Android apps that interface with BLE beacons would a very different type of programming, so don't see things as just one path.

 

[Gnome]

Graduate role which states exactly what I did, Although no specific programming language is required – you should be familiar with the syntax of languages

Having interviewed there, I can tell you now you will be asked to write code.
The problems aren't per-se going to be easy. Definitely not "hello world"
Even as a graduate.

Their philosophy is simple.
As an engineer you are adaptable and language is a tool.
Moving from language to language shouldn't be difficult or time consuming.
Writing fully idiomatic code does take some time but writing a solution in a language you first encountered today is expected, you figure it out while you solve the problem.

So unlike what is being postulated, your fundamentals need to be rock solid.
They'll question you on your data structures and algorithms, give your coding problems, test your ability to design a software solution (maybe not the last one for a graduate).