[Advice Needed] Legacy Computer System - 32-bit windows OS & Serial Ports

pancakescornbreadfrog

pancakescornbreadfrog

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Hi All, some background - we run a few systems at work that still uses rs232 for coms and require a 32bit windows OS to function. Recently the last backup PC we had gave in, and I have some trouble sourcing new PC's that are both 32-bit and have serial ports. I have considered going the virtual pc & rs232/USB converter route, but I'm afraid this might cause some issues when it comes to the users. I scorched the internet searching for an out of the box solution but was unable to find anything. The two options I currently have is going either the virtual PC route or sourcing the hardware and building the PC's from scratch, what route would you recommend and why?
 
We had a similar problem with an older online analyser that communicates with a serial port and a Windows 7 computer. When the PC died, the replacement PC did not have a serial port. Converters purchased from local PC component suppliers gave a lot of intermittent coms errors. We then contacted the manufacturer of the analyser and they recommended an industrial grade USB - Serial converter, specifically the Moxa UPort 1150I. https://www.moxa.com/en/products/in...rial-converters/uport-1100-series/uport-1150i
It's been working perfectly with zero coms errors for more than 5 years now.
 
geezer said:
We had a similar problem with an older online analyser that communicates with a serial port and a Windows 7 computer. When the PC died, the replacement PC did not have a serial port. Converters purchased from local PC component suppliers gave a lot of intermittent coms errors. We then contacted the manufacturer of the analyser and they recommended an industrial grade USB - Serial converter, specifically the Moxa UPort 1150I. https://www.moxa.com/en/products/in...rial-converters/uport-1100-series/uport-1150i
It's been working perfectly with zero coms errors for more than 5 years now.
Click to expand...
Thanks @geezer will definitely consider going this route if I can't find a PC with a built-in rs232 port. At the moment it looks like the best option.
 
geezer said:
We had a similar problem with an older online analyser that communicates with a serial port and a Windows 7 computer. When the PC died, the replacement PC did not have a serial port. Converters purchased from local PC component suppliers gave a lot of intermittent coms errors. We then contacted the manufacturer of the analyser and they recommended an industrial grade USB - Serial converter, specifically the Moxa UPort 1150I. https://www.moxa.com/en/products/in...rial-converters/uport-1100-series/uport-1150i
It's been working perfectly with zero coms errors for more than 5 years now.
Click to expand...
Yeah,issue is generally the majority use "clone" chips that either get driver lockouts and need older drivers,or just general instability
 
garyc said:
Industrial PCs often come with RS232 ports. You can look if anything here meets your requirements: https://www.cme.co.za/shop/category/industrial-pc-embedded-computing-iot-embedded-systems-15684

They also sell motherboards and a lot of serial communication stuff https://www.cme.co.za/shop/category/industrial-pc-components-serial-communication-15681
Click to expand...
@garyc thank you this looks like it will work great, my biggest issue is the 32-bit OS now. But I think I'm just going to purchase a few cd-keys online to solve this and load the OS's myself.
 
pancakescornbreadfrog said:
Hi All, some background - we run a few systems at work that still uses rs232 for coms and require a 32bit windows OS to function. Recently the last backup PC we had gave in, and I have some trouble sourcing new PC's that are both 32-bit and have serial ports. I have considered going the virtual pc & rs232/USB converter route, but I'm afraid this might cause some issues when it comes to the users. I scorched the internet searching for an out of the box solution but was unable to find anything. The two options I currently have is going either the virtual PC route or sourcing the hardware and building the PC's from scratch, what route would you recommend and why?
Click to expand...
So there seems to be a bit of a mix of concepts here.
Why would serial port on a non "32-bit computer" be a problem?

Serial port has nothing to do with the bits and/or architecture of your computer.
Hell Raspberry Pi's, Arduino's etc. all make use of it, that is why it is so widely used.

Or is it because the newer computers don't have RS232 ports?
Server grade equipment always come with RS232 ports.
For example you can buy a SuperMicro server motherboard and you'll have multiple RS232 ports on it.

And to be clear, those motherboards aren't as expensive as you would think.
For example: https://www.amazon.com/Supermicro-Mini-A1SRI-2558F-Motherboard-Combo/dp/B00HS4NLHA
That motherboard can be powered from 12v, it has RS232 ports, it uses ECC memory (so much more robust) and it has low power usage.
It will also blow older computers you have been using out of the water in terms of performance and they also still have drivers for Windows XP for example (will probably work on Windows 2000 too)
 
Gnome said:
So there seems to be a bit of a mix of concepts here.
Why would serial port on a non "32-bit computer" be a problem?

Serial port has nothing to do with the bits and/or architecture of your computer.
Hell Raspberry Pi's, Arduino's etc. all make use of it, that is why it is so widely used.

Or is it because the newer computers don't have RS232 ports?
Server grade equipment always come with RS232 ports.
For example you can buy a SuperMicro server motherboard and you'll have multiple RS232 ports on it.

And to be clear, those motherboards aren't as expensive as you would think.
For example: https://www.amazon.com/Supermicro-Mini-A1SRI-2558F-Motherboard-Combo/dp/B00HS4NLHA
That motherboard can be powered from 12v, it has RS232 ports, it uses ECC memory (so much more robust) and it has low power usage.
It will also blow older computers you have been using out of the water in terms of performance and they also still have drivers for Windows XP for example (will probably work on Windows 2000 too)
Click to expand...
Hi @Gnome, I'll definitely look into these. The reason for using a 32-bit OS is that the applications that I need to run on these PC's are written in 16-bit, and unfortunately windows 64-bit distros doesn't come with NTVDM to run the applications as far as I'm aware.
 
pancakescornbreadfrog said:
Hi @Gnome, I'll definitely look into these. The reason for using a 32-bit OS is that the applications that I need to run on these PC's are written in 16-bit, and unfortunately windows 64-bit distros doesn't come with NTVDM to run the applications as far as I'm aware.
Click to expand...

Ok two things.

64-bit CPUs can still run 32-bit OSs, fully. Some of the latest 64-bit CPUs will have a problem running older Window such as XP and so on but not related to bits. (IIRC it is due to high precision event timers).

The reason you can't run the same program when you run a 64-bit OS is because long mode doesn't support all the previous modes.
But when you actually boot a 32-bit OS it is still running in the previous mode.
This stuff is really complicated but it really all depends what the OS has booted into.
The CPU itself can do everything the 32 bit CPU can.

EDIT: I realise this is confusing. 64-bit CPUs can run in 16-bit, 32-bit and 64-bit mode. They are put into that mode by the operating system. When the CPU is running in 64-bit mode, it cannot run everything from 32-bit mode. However, if you boot a 32-bit OS on a 64-bit CPU, it will behave identically to a 32-bit CPU because it is running in 32-bit mode. Similarly a 64-bit CPU can boot a 16-bit operating system without issue. To understand the mode stuff you'll need to understand the CPU rings and it is super complicated. But the gist is 64-bit CPUs include everything a 32-bit CPU does which includes everything a 16-bit CPU does. And how it runs depends on the operating system, not the CPU

That Atom server board I linked would run 32bit/16bit mode no problem.
Also the fact that it is a server board has huge advantages.
They use server grade components, ECC ram (error correcting RAM) and it is built for 24/7 operation.
None of this consumer grade garbage.

It also has IPMI, a ARM CPU that sits on the motherboard and has a web-UI so you can remotely see what is showing on the screen of that computer, monitor it's temperature, voltages, power control remotely, etc. (this is pretty standard for servers).
 
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