Advice needed.

charlieharper

charlieharper

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Im in Grade 10 this year, but my school doesn't offer IT Programming. I take all the subjects REQUIRED (maths ect) to get into Varsity in the Programming Course. I'm not sure which Languages (eg C#, C++, JAVA or whatever) to go for and how hard programming really is. How is MATHS involved with programming?

I know this sounds kind of RANDOM, making a post like this, but i'm just thinking about the future and want to know if programming will be worth it. But i mean, I LOVE computers and everything in connection with it. I even have some great ideas sometimes about what programs I would program, if I had the skill.

SHOT
 
ronald911 said:
How is MATHS involved with programming?
SHOT
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I'm going to go a little OT here. There seems to be a lot of emphases on Maths at the moment?

IMO maths is not about maths and NOT about doing sums in the real world (hear me out) it's more about a way of thinking and problem solving... You have a problem, you have a set of "tools" (formula/equations/theory) and you find a solution. Often in more that one way.

Maths is about training your brain and because of that I'd say it does make better programmers (especially the logic courses). Saying that just because you can quadriple integrate a discrete random on 35 dimentions does mean you can "Hello World!" (and vice versa).
 
However, you need maths to be able to study computer programming further - whether you do the math modules or not.

Back on topic, programming is not really that hard. You'll find tutorials all over the net for the various languages (search this forum for a thread on which language is best to learn/start with), and in most cases, if not all, you can find tools to be creative with in your chosen language.

Be advised though: Knowing how to write code makes you a good programmer in the same way that knowing how to drive doesn't automatically make me a good driver. Be sure you want to do this - long, hard hours lie ahead, much frustration, and much gratification at the end of it all.
 
I code mostly in Java, so I'm biased. I have done C++ and C# coding, but still prefer Java. For GUI development, I prefer C#, for anything else, Java. Not just because of the actual language, but because of the great IDE (code editor). It writes about 50% of my code for me :D

All the C-style languages have the same syntax, so switching from one to the other is not difficult.

I mostly find programming easy and logical, but not everyone does. Why don't you try writing a few small applications to see if you enjoy it? To get started with Java, download and install the latest Sun JDK and Eclipse Java IDE.

practically, you don't need maths for programming. perhaps to get into a university, but mostly not for actual coding (except for some specialised fields). usually, good programmers are good with maths. i think it has to do with your problem solving ability.

is mathematics necessary for programming

EDIT: A good (and freely downloadable) Java book: Bruce Eckel's MindView, Inc: Thinking in Java
 
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From a .NET Framework background with some experience in Java and C++, I can have to honestly say there is no "right" language or framework to code for. It is all a matter of preference, sometimes determined by your particular experience in a framework. Maths will help you in structuring your thoughts and methodically implementing a solution to a problem. As mentioned above, its not about the number-crunching. For the most part, the code will do the calculations for you - you just need to be able to create a solution.
 
Ahh, seems to be a couple of people asking the question of how math is involved...

well, my few cents worth is pretty much what the others spent above - math doesn't teach you how to add 2 and 2, but rather what the purpose of adding 2 and 2 is for... in other words, its more teaching you logic than anything else (how to think). I did both logic and math in varsity and it they complemented each other pretty well...
 
I would go with Java. Java/C# are so similar, it's like South African English vs American English. Java is more common though. C++ is harder to learn, but on the other hand it's easy to go from C++ to Java/C# than the other way round.

The maths for programming specifically is as wishblade said, it's about the logic. If you intend to do a BSc with computer science you usually have to take maths as well. CS at university is largely theoretical so that's why maths is needed, not so much for the programming part. Take a look at Petri Nets for example, if you haven't done maths you don't have a hope of understanding it properly.
 
real programmers don't just code in one specific language. They can pick up any language and run with it.

Maths has a good deal to do when working with ecommerce stuff, but even basic maths is enough for that. Logically working stuff out is a preference.

oh, and it's not how good you can program, it's how good your debugging skill is, how to look for answers and understanding the underlying issues and then fixing them is key when doing anything in this stupid world.

Most people glaze over and you will know them by the sound they make, "It gave me an error" <-- astonishing how you then need to play 20 questions with them to figure out what they did in the first place nevermind WHAT the error message says.

Often I hear, "Oh it just said something about gobbledee-gook and I just clicked okay and now it says something about not found" <-- File Not Found error on Word Document (hell not related to programming, just goes to show what **** you need to fix for people because you "know" computers) and lateron I determined they didn't have enough disk space left for their Recycle Bin, so each time they deleted a file, it came up with the warning message that it couldn't move it to the Recycle Bin, and then if they wanted to permanently delete the file.

I swear... those people make me dumb
 
AcidRaZor said:
real
I swear... those people make me dumb
Click to expand...

lol but that's one of the first thing everyone learns when they start programming, that people are stupid and we have to do everything to make sure they don't mess up the program. More than often I spend more time writing code to make sure the person using the program doesn't break the program by putting a name in where they should be putting a number and then validating all the input etc etc. sigh

There are no stupid questions, only stupid people :)
 
S1ght said:
lol but that's one of the first thing everyone learns when they start programming, that people are stupid and we have to do everything to make sure they don't mess up the program. More than often I spend more time writing code to make sure the person using the program doesn't break the program by putting a name in where they should be putting a number and then validating all the input etc etc. sigh

There are no stupid questions, only stupid people :)
Click to expand...

Yea, writing validation code is like 85% of the job. And it's not like the GUI is hard to understand or anything is "hidden" and I diabolically just switch things around.

Just basic comprehension.

That's another thing you need to be good at. Comprehension. I can't tell you where I would be today if I didn't comprehend what I saw or read. I mean, how hard is it?

don't understand? read it again till you do :)

Sometimes I miss read tho :(
 
S1ght said:
lol but that's one of the first thing everyone learns when they start programming, that people are stupid and we have to do everything to make sure they don't mess up the program. More than often I spend more time writing code to make sure the person using the program doesn't break the program by putting a name in where they should be putting a number and then validating all the input etc etc. sigh

There are no stupid questions, only stupid people :)
Click to expand...

hahaha, gives noddy badge to s1ght. I so know your pain. I'm working on a system that are looking at 2500 concurrent logons and you won't believe what the averadge user can get up to.
 
AcidRaZor said:
real programmers don't just code in one specific language. They can pick up any language and run with it.
Click to expand...

:D Oh, this made me sit up and read! You're quite right though - the good developers understand the concepts behind the language, and realise that the language/platform is simply a tool - a means to an end. Math has nothing to do with that, either.

Oh, and in the right job, you have a development team, and a maintenance team. Maintenance handles the induhviduals so the development team can get on and do what they get paid to do. :cool:
 
ronald911 said:
Im in Grade 10 this year, but my school doesn't offer IT Programming. I take all the subjects REQUIRED (maths ect) to get into Varsity in the Programming Course. I'm not sure which Languages (eg C#, C++, JAVA or whatever) to go for and how hard programming really is. How is MATHS involved with programming?

I know this sounds kind of RANDOM, making a post like this, but i'm just thinking about the future and want to know if programming will be worth it. But i mean, I LOVE computers and everything in connection with it. I even have some great ideas sometimes about what programs I would program, if I had the skill.

SHOT
Click to expand...


Take maths, get your BSc, get qualified, especially in this day and age, varsity will take you through C++, C, ASM, C#, JAVA you will touch base on all of them , keep up with C++, C# and JAVA. Having those in your skill set will most likely guarantee you a position in the working world. This country is highly short of qualified engineers.
 
semaphore said:
Take maths, get your BSc, get qualified, especially in this day and age, varsity will take you through C++, C, ASM, C#, JAVA you will touch base on all of them , keep up with C++, C# and JAVA. Having those in your skill set will most likely guarantee you a position in the working world. This country is highly short of qualified engineers.
Click to expand...

I agree. As long as you're a bright lad being able to learn something quickly, having that background would be very advantages. Seeing as you can (from that base of understanding) start in Python/PHP/JavaScript etc and then do the relatively easy stuff like ASP/VB/Delphi/Cobol etc

Plus, with a varsity degree you can go teach english in Taiwan and see the world. Either that or become a barman in your sparetime. I'd always suggest someone get a secondary skill to programming, see the world once you've finished studying, save/pay off your loan that way and touch base on the programming world in your spare time. Then come back, fall into a position and work your ass off.

Unfortunately you're not always shielded from customers, the perfect enviroment would be Maintanence/Dev team as described. But I found that if you're exposed to clients directly your skill grows exponentially. You start to be more intuitive in their needs much quicker and I think that is what sets me a bit apart from the normal developing crowd. I don't take instructions, I make them :D
 
AcidRaZor said:
Unfortunately you're not always shielded from customers, the perfect enviroment would be Maintanence/Dev team as described. But I found that if you're exposed to clients directly your skill grows exponentially. You start to be more intuitive in their needs much quicker and I think that is what sets me a bit apart from the normal developing crowd. I don't take instructions, I make them :D
Click to expand...
Well, that goes for all aspects of software development. I always try to learn new things and I find that spending some time with customers/testers/designers/... helps. They give you a different perspective on something you thought you knew.
 
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