Allergic to beer

[grim]

Isn’t SAB starting to sell Amstel as well again?

No

Amstel and Heineken are produced and distributed by Brandhouse in SA. Heineken took the Amstel license away from SAB for lack of hygiene in the breweries and additives found in the beer.

 

[atomcrusher]

1. SAB beers (Hansa, Castle, Black Label, Castle Lite) have a high percentage of Maize in them. They use specific enzymes to break the maize down as well as the malt. Conversely Windhoek and Tafel contain no maize - I'd start there.

^ This
The Namibian beers like Tafel & Windhoek Draught are "Reinheitsgebot" certified.
SA Breweries products are not Reinheitsgebot certified. Many years ago (mid-1970s) I was a brewer at Rhodesian Breweries (owned by SAB), and maize was a main ingredient. And I dare not speak of their so-called Milk Stout

 

[OMB]

No

Amstel and Heineken are produced and distributed by Brandhouse in SA. Heineken took the Amstel license away from SAB for lack of hygiene in the breweries and additives found in the beer.

no, it was conflict of interest

SAB was producing Heineken and Amstel locally, but competing against Heineken and Amstel elsewhere, especially in Africa

 

[CL-West]

No

Amstel and Heineken are produced and distributed by Brandhouse in SA. Heineken took the Amstel license away from SAB for lack of hygiene in the breweries and additives found in the beer.

Yes I heard that they stopped selling it, but so far as I know they were planning on starting to sell it again. Can't remember where I read it. Will search and post link.

 

[OMB]

^ This
The Namibian beers like Tafel & Windhoek Draught are "Reinheitsgebot" certified.
SA Breweries products are not Reinheitsgebot certified. Many years ago (mid-1970s) I was a brewer at Rhodesian Breweries (owned by SAB), and maize was a main ingredient. And I dare not speak of their so-called Milk Stout

The Reinheitsgebot is more of a marketing ploy these days and even the Namibian guys treat their water first, amongst other things like actually using yeast

 

[OMB]

Yes I heard that they stopped selling it, but so far as I know they were planning on starting to sell it again. Can't remember where I read it. Will search and post link.

Heineken and Diageo have their own brewery in Midvaal, I can't see them giving SAB the licence back

 

[Fulcrum29]

no, it was conflict of interest

SAB was producing Heineken and Amstel locally, but competing against Heineken and Amstel elsewhere, especially in Africa

When did SABMiller ever produce Heineken? The only beer Heineken ever licenced to SABMiller was Amstel until Heineken decided to terminate the agreement in which SABMiller had the rights to produce, market, sell and distribute in SA. Heineken according to my knowledge is licenced to Namibia Breweries, where they even have control over the packaging and certain other elements (ingredients). I do know that Heineken had issues with the quality in both the Amstel (SABMiller) and Heineken (Namibia Breweries), it was also in this stage that they terminated SABMiller. Heineken themselves is in the phases to open their own brewery in SA, don’t know about the current status.

@Grim, Brandhouse is only a distributor as per my knowledge, they are licenced to market, sell and distribute. They are also a social media company and does various PR work related to alcohol beverages, not limited to those under their own brands (licenced agreements).

 

[luxe]

@ Fulcrum - all due respect, everything you think you know is wrong.

SAB manufactured and sold Heineken up to 2004 if i recall. When I worked there we still had all the Heineken golf bags and promo
stuff in the store rooms before the great Amstel fall out.

The decision by Heineken family to take back Amstel had nothing to do with quality. When SAB stopped making Amstel they were selling 10 million hectoliters a year of the stuff. Heineken was taking a hiding and had less than 2% Market share. As an "in" to the country and to grow share and build a brewery in Sedibeng (Which has been open for more than 2 years by the way) they took Amstel back to give them an instant 8 - 9% market share and a product to brew daily in the brewery.

They now brew Amstel, Heineken and Guinness, as well as mixing the premix for Smirnoff Storm.

 

[Fulcrum29]

@ Fulcrum - all due respect, everything you think you know is wrong.

SAB manufactured and sold Heineken up to 2004 if i recall. When I worked there we still had all the Heineken golf bags and promo
stuff in the store rooms before the great Amstel fall out.

The decision by Heineken family to take back Amstel had nothing to do with quality. When SAB stopped making Amstel they were selling 10 million hectoliters a year of the stuff. Heineken was taking a hiding and had less than 2% Market share. As an "in" to the country and to grow share and build a brewery in Sedibeng (Which has been open for more than 2 years by the way) they took Amstel back to give them an instant 8 - 9% market share and a product to brew daily in the brewery.

They now brew Amstel, Heineken and Guinness, as well as mixing the premix for Smirnoff Storm.

I’m really sure that SAB never had a licence agreement with Heineken to produce Heineken. As with the quality issue, it was with the water being used, this comment was made towards Grim’s hygiene remark related to the Amstel brewing. I also said that it was in this stage that Heineken terminated the Amstel licence.

As per the SAB press release: http://www.sab.co.za/sablimited/content/en/sab-press-releases-archive-2007?oid=286&sn=Detail&pid=391

Heineken’s stated argument was that SAB’s profits were being used to fund SABMiller’s global expansion and that Heineken’s objective was to restrict SABMiller’s South African domestic and international success.

The Sedibeng Brewery is shared by Heineken and Diageo (25%) and together with Namibian Brewery are stakeholders in Brandhouse Beverages. All the brands produced at Sedibeng is either under licenced agreement or owned by the owners.

 

[luxe]

I’m really sure that SAB never had a licence agreement with Heineken to produce Heineken. As with the quality issue, it was with the water being used, this comment was made towards Grim’s hygiene remark related to the Amstel brewing. I also said that it was in this stage that Heineken terminated the Amstel licence.

As per the SAB press release: http://www.sab.co.za/sablimited/content/en/sab-press-releases-archive-2007?oid=286&sn=Detail&pid=391



The Sedibeng Brewery is shared by Heineken and Diageo (25%) and together with Namibian Brewery are stakeholders in Brandhouse Beverages. All the brands produced at Sedibeng is either under licenced agreement or owned by the owners.

Hi,

I'm really sure you're wrong. I worked there, I know they sold Heineken.
I am aware of the release from 2007, I was there when it happened, and as I said, it had nothing to do with quality of water. Heineken was pissed that SAB was selling 10m heccies of Amstel, and that money was being used to fund their growth against Heineken in their competitive countries.

And again, my point made regarding the brewery, thanks for validating it.

 

[luxe]

I’m really sure that SAB never had a licence agreement with Heineken to produce Heineken. As with the quality issue, it was with the water being used, this comment was made towards Grim’s hygiene remark related to the Amstel brewing. I also said that it was in this stage that Heineken terminated the Amstel licence.

As per the SAB press release: http://www.sab.co.za/sablimited/content/en/sab-press-releases-archive-2007?oid=286&sn=Detail&pid=391



The Sedibeng Brewery is shared by Heineken and Diageo (25%) and together with Namibian Brewery are stakeholders in Brandhouse Beverages. All the brands produced at Sedibeng is either under licenced agreement or owned by the owners.

Hi,

I'm really sure you're wrong. I worked there, I know they sold Heineken.
I am aware of the release from 2007, I was there when it happened, and as I said, it had nothing to do with quality of water. Heineken was pissed that SAB was selling 10m heccies of Amstel, and that money was being used to fund their growth against Heineken in their competitive countries.

And again, my point made regarding the brewery, thanks for validating it.

 

[luxe]

http://www.foodanddrinkeurope.com/Products-Marketing/Heineken-takes-control-of-SA-distribution

There you go, the release when Heineken took the brand away from SAB in 2003.

 

[OMB]

Heineken was imported and distributed by SAB under licence during the late '90's, as far as I recall it was later brewed at Chamdor as it was positioned as a premium beer with relatively small volumes.

 

[Fulcrum29]

Hi,

I'm really sure you're wrong. I worked there, I know they sold Heineken.
I am aware of the release from 2007, I was there when it happened, and as I said, it had nothing to do with quality of water. Heineken was pissed that SAB was selling 10m heccies of Amstel, and that money was being used to fund their growth against Heineken in their competitive countries.

And again, my point made regarding the brewery, thanks for validating it.

I never said that it was due to quality that Heineken terminated the Amstel Licence agreement with SAB. I did say that is was in this stage that the termination happened. SAB never had a licence to produce Heineken, but they did have an agreement with Heineken to sell and distribute Heineken until April 2003. This termination was likely due to the SAB acquisition with Miller Brewing.

I validated that the Sedibeng Brewery is owned by both Heineken (75%) and Diageo (25%) which is actually direct competition, whom also along with Namibian Brewery are stakeholders in Brandhouse, this I mentioned to clear things up already mentioned in this thread. They do not by themselves brew and own Guiness, but Diageo does (also the Vodka), although in the very same brewery.

Heineken want to expand on this continent also by utilising raw materials here, thus they needed to expand and be close to the resources, one being to open another 100% owned brewery in SA (did not happen as I checked), but did buy two new breweries in Kenya and Nigeria during 2011 and is busy constructing a rather large brewery in Ethiopia.

You said SAB produced Heineken, never happened.

 

[GreGorGy]

I am in same boat as OP. A beer in and my nose is irritated. I live on pills, neh, mainly because I live for pilsner.

 

[OMB]

You said SAB produced Heineken, never happened.

I have it on good authority that they did, for about 3 years

 

[Fulcrum29]

I have it on good authority that they did, for about 3 years

Yes, it was produced at Chamdor (you already mentioned this), but under Heineken supervision. When both parties (Heineken and SABMiller) agreed that SAB can continue with the agreement until April 2003, it only included sell and distribution rights but was still the same contract. At this time, Heineken made a deal (strategic partner) with Namibian Breweries to produce Heineken. What was unclear to me was the licence that allowed SAB to produce Heineken in SA or were this strictly by Heineken supervision to utilise SAB Chamdor as a brewery, then it panned out into import only, until Namibian Breweries got licenced in agreement to produce Heineken. According to my knowledge SAB never had a licence agreement to produce Heineken, only to sell and distribute.

 

[OMB]

I'm not sure about the brewing agreement for Heineken, but I doubt it would have been any different to Amstel, which meant annual audits by Heineken BV as well as regular submission of all quality results

 

[Fulcrum29]

I'm not sure about the brewing agreement for Heineken, but I doubt it would have been any different to Amstel, which meant annual audits by Heineken BV as well as regular submission of all quality results

You may very well be correct. I would appreciate more detail on these previous agreements.

The Amstel agreements were 40 years old when terminated, ultimately to have Brandhouse do the marketing, selling and distribution and Namibian Brewery and Heineken (Sedibeng Brewery) to do the production, herewith to keep all the licencing internally. I know that the Amstel agreement included the rights to produce (licenced), market, sell and distribute. In regard with the Heineken agreement, all I know is about the sell and distribution, do not know anything about licencing… Yes, audits and submission is standard protocol per agreement.

The only reason I replied on your initial post was due to me not knowing anything about a SAB Heineken beer licencing (to produce) agreement, thus SAB producing Heineken in their own right.

 

[luxe]

SAB never had a licence to produce Heineken, but they did have an agreement with Heineken to sell and distribute Heineken until April 2003.

Yes, it was produced at Chamdor (you already mentioned this), but under Heineken supervision.

Please make up your mind. SAB DID make and sell Heineken, end of story. Please stop arguing with facts, it's stupid.