America's deadly obsession with guns

Nom Chompsky

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An excellent, well-written piece on this subject

The massacre of innocents at a primary school in Newtown, Connecticut, on Friday was indeed, as President Obama put it, heart-breaking. His halting, grieving address to the nation captured the pain that is felt in the immediate aftermath of such a shocking event. But the pain will not last, for it has happened before – and no American politician will have the nerve to propose the only cure to this repetitive insanity, which would be a sensible, mature and responsible attitude towards the ownership and use of guns. He would never be elected to public office again.

This President can not stand for election a third time, so perhaps he might be able to break the mould. But it is hard to believe. The truth is, America is a society obsessed with guns and addicted to their repulsive but effective use as instruments of death. They like them; they teach their children how to shoot them, as Nancy Lanza did her son Adam, the young man responsible for the carnage in Connecticut; they store them; they harbour a fetish for them, and will never tolerate any attempt to deny them their toys. They rarely admit what their guns are designed to do, which is to kill.

Statistics may be a bad excuse for prose, but those which pertain to this subject make chilling and necessary reading. They demonstrate that there is a pathological pleasure at large in the United States. There are nearly 300 million guns to be found there, one third of them handguns – which are useless for hunting purposes, but brilliant as tools for killing. This represents the highest concentration of private ownership of murder weapons in the entire world. The rate for murder by gunfire is 100 times that of the United Kingdom.

Every year, 17,000 people are killed in America, 70 per cent of them with guns, and nearly 20,000 people commit suicide by shooting themselves to death in the home – where a gun is readily to hand in the cupboard. Almost half of all US households have a gun stored as easily as the knives and forks, the bed linen and the toothpaste. People are shot at work, at school, at the supermarket, at bus stops, or even at the front door if they ring the bell at an inconvenient time. In the whole world, only Colombia has a worse record.

The statistics are even more heart-breaking when applied to the young. The slaughter of children by gunfire in the United States is 25 times the rate of the 20 next largest industrial countries in the world combined. If you add them all up, since the assassinations of Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King in 1968, well over a million Americans, children and adults, have been shot to death, and even now 80 people die in this manner every day. The terrible slaughter on Friday is not as unusual as it should be.

Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...9024/Americas-deadly-obsession-with-guns.html
 
Recall that Washington banned handguns for 33 years; during some of those years the city was known as the nation's murder capital. Killers not deterred by laws against murder were not deterred by laws against owning guns. Moreover, anti-gun regulations did not address the deep-rooted causes of violent crime -- illegitimacy, drugs, alcohol abuse and dysfunctional schools -- much less mental instability.

In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books and 43 government publications evaluating 80 gun-control measures. Researchers could not identify a single regulation that reduced violent crime, suicide or accidents. A year earlier, the Centers for Disease Control reported on ammunition bans, restrictions on acquisition, waiting periods, registration, licensing, child access prevention and zero tolerance laws. CDC's conclusion: There was no conclusive evidence that the laws reduced gun violence.

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-01-18/...-regulations-gun-related-crimes?_s=PM:OPINION

The way I understand it is that most gun crime involves illegal firearms and in about a third of cases it involves home made illegal firearms. The school/public shootings are horrendous, but they're usually carried out by well disciplined, mentally ill but organised people who plan ahead of time. It's likely they would get their hands on guns, or they would use other means, such as setting the place alight or poison gas or explosives. On the other hand owning a gun is probably the most reliable way of protecting oneself, especially if one is a less physically strong person like a woman or a child.

I don't think there is a way out of this problem. Only solution is armed guards at school gates.
 
On the other hand owning a gun is probably the most reliable way of protecting oneself, especially if one is a less physically strong person like a woman or a child.

I don't think there is a way out of this problem. Only solution is armed guards at school gates.

Yeah nice one, next thing you know people will accidentally be killing strangers who approach for directions. I think you should move to the US
 
Yeah nice one, next thing you know people will accidentally be killing strangers who approach for directions. I think you should move to the US

Calm down there. Maybe you should move to North Korea, there are no guns there. Or maybe UK where gun violence is increasing despite bans on guns. Chill out.

Most gun violence is perpetrated by gangsters and criminals, not ordinary people and their victims are not asking for directions.

Is gun control working out in South Africa?
 
Calm down there. Maybe you should move to North Korea, there are no guns there. Or maybe UK where gun violence is increasing despite bans on guns. Chill out.

Most gun violence is perpetrated by gangsters and criminals, not ordinary people and their victims are not asking for directions.

Is gun control working out in South Africa?

I'm with you on that one, but just FYI, don't waste your time trying to argue with these types, they want a society where every little thing is regulated and controlled by the government, down to when you can poop and if you can wipe forwards or to the back.
 
I'm with you on that one, but just FYI, don't waste your time trying to argue with these types, they want a society where every little thing is regulated and controlled by the government, down to when you can poop and if you can wipe forwards or to the back.

True. Many people on MyBB are incredibly rude and snide. And uncharitable readings seem to be the norm.

Disclosure: I don't own a gun and don't like guns, but I don't think legally owned guns have a nett contribution of evil to society.
 
People will find ways to kill eachother. Banning gun ownership will change nothing.

Just for argument sake mcsack, let's say we had similar gun laws to the US, what would be the outcome?

http://www.hyattguns.com/tactical.html

Imagine our criminals with legal access to m16's, ak 47's :D. It would be a blood bath.

I am fairly certain in this country obtaining those kinds of weapons is not something you can do with the click of your mouse :D.
 
Just for argument sake mcsack, let's say we had similar gun laws to the US, what would be the outcome?

http://www.hyattguns.com/tactical.html

Imagine our criminals with legal access to m16's, ak 47's :D. It would be a blood bath.

I am fairly certain in this country obtaining those kinds of weapons is not something you can do with the click of your mouse :D.
I don't think the criminal element having access to legal guns is the issue. My feeling is that the vast majority of gun deaths are a by illegal weapons
Our crims here have pretty much open access to R4's/5's and AK47's anyway.
 
I don't think the criminal element having access to legal guns is the issue. My feeling is that the vast majority of gun deaths are a by illegal weapons
Our crims here have pretty much open access to R4's/5's and AK47's anyway.

I doubt your average criminal has access to that kind of weaponry, perhaps the well organized groups who know they will be going up against the cops or security vans might have them but i cannot believe your average criminal can get hold of an ak47/r4 etc that easily.

Perhaps hand guns but military type weapons cannot be open access surely?
 
Just for argument sake mcsack, let's say we had similar gun laws to the US, what would be the outcome?

http://www.hyattguns.com/tactical.html

Imagine our criminals with legal access to m16's, ak 47's :D. It would be a blood bath.

I am fairly certain in this country obtaining those kinds of weapons is not something you can do with the click of your mouse :D.

Our criminals already enjoy easy access to weapons. With easy access to m16 or ak47 for regular citizens, criminals would think twice about using them.

In SA the murder rate per 100,000 is 8x that of the US. (according to a CNN interview yesterday).
 
I doubt your average criminal has access to that kind of weaponry, perhaps the well organized groups who know they will be going up against the cops or security vans might have them but i cannot believe your average criminal can get hold of an ak47/r4 etc that easily.

Perhaps hand guns but military type weapons cannot be open access surely?

Most weapons used by criminals are illegal. How many cases of shooting after knocking at the door to deliver Watchtower magazine or Eskom light bulbs have you heard of in SA?

Military grade weapons are common in SA. Not least because of the history of armed struggle, not least because of our porous borders with poverty ridden Zimbabwe next door, Nigerian (and other) gangs operating in SA and just poor effectiveness/corruption of police.

Home made weapons are also not difficult to make. Gun technology has not changed much in 100 years.

The real problem one needs to address is why society is so evil that people consider killing of others, especially innocent children an acceptable way of releasing steam. That's the elephant in the room everyone is ignoring. Band aid attempts to look at some of the consequences of that won't stop the etiology of the problem. The symptoms will just change. When you have a brain tumour the treatment is to take it out not to dope you with pethidine.

I think some peoples' obsession with guns is a contributor to that (or maybe a sign thereof). There is no reason why some people collect so many guns and show them off to their kids at young age, glorifying their use. Yes guns are used to kill and not just to kill for morally justified reasons (preservation of own or others' life) but obviously they can be used to murder.

The issue is attitude to life. Modern nihilism drives the attitude that unless you're important to someone else, you're not worth squat. These kids had no importance to the shooter, obviously. He couldn't figure out that their lives have objective worth.

It's an interesting situation because we still sit around with old fashioned notions of human rights, natural rights, natural law and so on, but modern nihilist attitude does not reflect that.
 
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