An Absolute Beginner Asks..........

[reneg8or]

I am over fifty.
I am disabled to some degree in that I sometimes cannot walk unaided, due to spinal injury.
I still climb up hills when my body agrees to it.
I do not understand the 4x4 community, for instance, where they buy expensive vehicles to get to nature and return from the mountain without having seen the droppings of the owl or where a litte bird had bathed in the dust. The vehicle should be used to get to the point from where nature is experienced.

Why do I start my question like this? I sometimes listen to the keen photographers on RSG. My son, 21, is of the opinion that the days of extra lenses are over as something like a 60D will do all one needs. My idea is to buy a camera that will allow me to learn how to become a fair photographer and leave some of the skill to me. Standing on an escarpment and taking pictures of the scenery down below, or close-up shots of flowers, insects or birds.

Because of my sometimes limited mobility, if I had the money, a Range Rover is what I would have bought. To get me to nature in a cosseting, foolproof way. The opposite sentiment s true when it comes to photography. I have taken fairly good pictures with point-and-shoot film cameras way back.

My son's friend flies around the globe and takes photo's of things like fighter jets in action, on assignment. This fancy photographer tells my son that lenses are not necessary any longer. Invest in a Canon 60D and you will become the best photographer around.

If I opened the tap on an oak cask, will that turn me into a prime wine maker? Will pressing a button turn me into a good photographer? I hope not as I want to acquire a skill and turn it into art. I need it to be a toll used in enriching my life, not to automate my desires.

Where is the truth in technology?

 

[OGroteKoning]

My guess is you want to buy a camera?

If so, what's your budget?

 

[Keeper]

They are just tools.

Some mechanics don't have the best tools but are experts in their field. Other people might be able to afford the best tools in the world but aren't as experienced.

 

[reneg8or]

Tools & Budgets

They are just tools.

Some mechanics don't have the best tools but are experts in their field. Other people might be able to afford the best tools in the world but aren't as experienced.

My point exactly. We should be left to acquire skills and not have automated tools replace our expertise.

 

[CaffeinePirate]

I love my 60D
Some of my best pictures (macro especially) where taken with a simple Canon Powershot point and shoot though.

I'd say the tool matters to a certain degree, and from there it's up to the user's skill

 

[reneg8or]

My guess is you want to buy a camera?

If so, what's your budget?

It will happen some time into the future but then the budget will be R15k - R25k.


A guy called Massimo from Italy took some of the most awesome photo's with a cheap Fujifilm digital SLR. He has an array of lenses. I saw some of his work and was astonished to see how even muscles under the skin of a lion's paws showed. The muscles were tense because the lion was on alert, it was a bit of a scary moment on an open vehicle. Massimo did not flee as did the guide, he took a photo instead. The detail on the picture is just breath taking. It was taken at a distance no greater than ten metres, more likely five.

I'd love to play around with colour and texture. My wife has a Nokia C6 and she takes commendable stills with it. If I can have a tool for her to develop her skill, even the better. She is getting encouragement from manufacturing jewellers and painter artists, for instance.

 

[CL-West]

The bad mechanic, blames his tools!

 

[reneg8or]

I love my 60D
Some of my best pictures (macro especially) where taken with a simple Canon Powershot point and shoot though.

I'd say the tool matters to a certain degree, and from there it's up to the user's skill

We had digital compacts, mine was a Sony and hers a Kodak but we sold both and are saving up for the right tool. My son says that the days of extra lenses are over. My wife and I both like close-up shots of flowers but also standing at God's Window or on Signal Hill and capture the mountain or a sunset. With my compact, I sometimes had problems with depth of field. I wanted both the object and the background to be in focus and do it manually. Help me if I am wrong, but photographing a springbok standing 150 metres away may need an extra lens and the right settings for DOF. Or does software and wizardry nowadays take that fun out of the equation?


My Sony excelled at taking shots of small objects an inch away from the lens. It wasn't so good bringing faraway objects nearer, over a distance of 20 metres or so.

 

[reneg8or]

We want to take excellent pictures, not amateur material as we are doing now. I'd love to play with light and texture. We take pictures of everyday things like a piece of bark of a tree, or an iron grid from close up. It is interesting to see how a mundane thing can be brought to life.

 

[reneg8or]

Zooming in on an uncommon sight is what is needed. This cout is outside of the pond, not an everyday event. As one can't get closer without scaring it off, what will be needed to take a real good photo? It has to look as natural as possible, including the background.

 

[CaffeinePirate]

We had digital compacts, mine was a Sony and hers a Kodak but we sold both and are saving up for the right tool. My son says that the days of extra lenses are over. My wife and I both like close-up shots of flowers but also standing at God's Window or on Signal Hill and capture the mountain or a sunset. With my compact, I sometimes had problems with depth of field. I wanted both the object and the background to be in focus and do it manually. Help me if I am wrong, but photographing a springbok standing 150 metres away may need an extra lens and the right settings for DOF. Or does software and wizardry nowadays take that fun out of the equation?


My Sony excelled at taking shots of small objects an inch away from the lens. It wasn't so good bringing faraway objects nearer, over a distance of 20 metres or so.

Perhaps look at a bridge camera? I had a Fujifilm that used to take pretty decent shots close (1cm macro) as well as far (10x optical zoom) Here is one of the latest:

http://www.fujifilm.co.za/products/digital_cameras/s/finepix_hs30exr/

I don't think that you can really rely on one lens with a dslr if you want to use it for both wide landscape shots as well as for wildlife. One should also always stay away from digital zoom.

 

[bwana]

The bad mechanic, blames his tools!

Having a hammer isn't going to do you any good if you really need a screwdriver, you still need the right tool for the right job.

That said a mid range nikon with their 28-300 is going to be about as close as you can get to a DSLR Leatherman in my books.

 

[reneg8or]

Perhaps look at a bridge camera? I had a Fujifilm that used to take pretty decent shots close (1cm macro) as well as far (10x optical zoom) Here is one of the latest:

http://www.fujifilm.co.za/products/digital_cameras/s/finepix_hs30exr/

I don't think that you can really rely on one lens with a dslr if you want to use it for both wide landscape shots as well as for wildlife. One should also always stay away from digital zoom.

Wisdom from a sage: "One should also always stay away from digital zoom."

Thanks for the advice and for the link, I am reading there. Digital zoom is as bad as pre-sets on software equalizers in computer audio. Horrid stuff. Rather spend on lenses than over-the-top camera? My original idea. A few different lenses to cover various types of situations?

 

[CaffeinePirate]

Wisdom from a sage: "One should also always stay away from digital zoom."

Thanks for the advice and for the link, I am reading there. Digital zoom is as bad as pre-sets on software equalizers in computer audio. Horrid stuff. Rather spend on lenses than over-the-top camera? My original idea. A few different lenses to cover various types of situations?

I'd swear by that statement.

It can become a tad cumbersome to carry around 3 lenses, but I'd say the results are worth it. When I first got my dslr all that lived on my camera was a 50mm (I didn't need a telephoto), but I'd also always carry the kit lens 18-55mm around- just in case.

If you want to go the dslr route, and go with Canon, I'd suggest the 70D that is soon to be released, it has had good reviews. I'm not really knowledgeable with lenses, but I'd suggest a nifty fifty (they're cheap and produce good results) a wide angle, as well as a telephoto, obviously. I had a 55-250mm which wasn't bad quality wise, but doesn't zoom very far. The next is the 75-300mm, as far as I know, and Canon as well as a few generic brands are around. If you want to go bigger than that, prepare for lenses that cost more than the camera (that or a teleconverter)

 

[bwana]

Wisdom from a sage: "One should also always stay away from digital zoom."

Thanks for the advice and for the link, I am reading there. Digital zoom is as bad as pre-sets on software equalizers in computer audio. Horrid stuff. Rather spend on lenses than over-the-top camera? My original idea. A few different lenses to cover various types of situations?

Digital zoom is the same as enlarging the images on the PC.

 

[reneg8or]

Having a hammer isn't going to do you any good if you really need a screwdriver, you still need the right tool for the right job.

That said a mid range nikon with their 28-300 is going to be about as close as you can get to a DSLR Leatherman in my books.

Thanks, Bwana, added to my list.

 

[reneg8or]

Digital zoom is the same as enlarging the images on the PC.

And that is the opposite of what I want. Some digital cameras reduce the picture after it had been taken, if a smaller size is specified, but them some will reduce exposure to the "photo chip." If one then enlarges the picture again, it is very pixelated. I use Irfanview on my computer and only resize pictures taken at high resolution on phone/camera but then I set my phone or camera to its largest size. I am more concerned about pixel density on the actual photo chip than about size.

 

[nanonyous]

You're not going to get very far buying a 60D.
I mean, sure, you could make a pinhole lens of the body cap, but getting at least one lens with the camera is kind of crucial. *grin*

Op, your son would be best served picking up a 1100D or D3100 kit to start with. Both can be had with the 18-55mm kit lenses and a bag for as little as R3.5k if you shop around and will easily last the year or two your son should spend learning his Aperture settings from his Shutter Speeds and ISOs. You can pick up an Olympus OM-mount 50mm f/1.8 for around R150 if you watch Gumtree for a while and get a 'Big-IS EMF AF-confirm OM-EOS Adapter' from Ebay for around R130 or so, which will give him a great-performing metal MF-only manual-aperture 50mm lens that will last him the rest of his life, be of use for video purposes and will be cheaper than Canon's 50mm f/1.8 plastic fantastic. Throwing Magic Lantern onto the camera he can check focus using live view for difficult shooting conditions or if he wants to shoot at f/1.8 and is too close for focus-and-recompose to be practical - there's nothing wrong with using live view, after all, it's just another way to see what you're shooting, much like a waist-level vs eye-level viewfinder on a MF or TLR camera.

For a telephoto lens to start off with, I'd also recommend one of the Olympus OM-mount 80-200mm ~f/4 lenses you can find on Ebay. They're far from stellar performers, being that most are only of use from f/5.6 upwards, but they'll come to around R250 or so and will again last your son till he knows why he'd want or need the focal lengths offered by it in the first place (if he'd want them at all).

End result will be a good learner kit coming in at less than R5k.

The primary limitations on the 1100D (don't know what the limitations on the D3100 from Nikon are) will come to the camera not having spot metering and not having a dedicated ISO button; that being said, you can remap the popup flash button to function as an ISO button, and if you want to quickly get the popup flash up, simply change to an automatic mode, cover the front of the lens with your hand and half-press the shutter and it'll automatically flip up - else use the My Menu function to create a dedicated 'pop-up flash' item. Aside from those and the low FPS, the camera isn't all that much worse than, say, a 500D, which is already a very capable camera.

A 60D will only really offer him a tilty-swively screen (which he can replicate using a cheap in-car VGA screen that he connects using the camera's AV cable, and can create a mounting bracket for to get it 'fixed' to the camera), different RAW file sizes, a (much) higher framerate and max burst length, more advanced and dedicated controls that he won't miss unless he knows why he wants/needs them, and a few other things he'll again only miss if he knows why he wants/needs them.

By the time he knows why he wants/needs these things, and especially if he needs them, he should be in a position where he can justify the cost of whatever he plans on getting to augment or replace his existing equipment. By that time, a 70D will probably cost as much as a 60D costs now, a 7D Mk II will have come out and/or he might even be in a position where he has reason to and 'can afford to' skip these and go straight for something like a Canon 5D Mk III or a Nikon D800, along with a bunch of fancypant lighting goodies and premium lenses.


Now, if what your son wants is a do-it-all DSLR+lens combination, then what Bwana suggested will probably work just fine. It'll cost, but at least your son won't be lens swapping all the time, and even if he doesn't ever upgrade to hurrfessional levels, the kit will (ideally) satisfy him from a hobbyist perspective for many years still.

 

[Fudzy]

View attachment 66749

View attachment 66751

We want to take excellent pictures, not amateur material as we are doing now. I'd love to play with light and texture. We take pictures of everyday things like a piece of bark of a tree, or an iron grid from close up. It is interesting to see how a mundane thing can be brought to life.

View attachment 66761

Zooming in on an uncommon sight is what is needed. This cout is outside of the pond, not an everyday event. As one can't get closer without scaring it off, what will be needed to take a real good photo? It has to look as natural as possible, including the background.

Did you add a blur to the photos or is that straight off the camera?

 

[Rocket-Boy]

A 60D as mentioned before is just a body. You will still need lenses for varying types of shots.
You can get a decent landscape with an 18-55mm kit lense but its not going to be as good as say a 10-20mm wide angle.
Same can be said for macro photography etc etc etc.