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Question of the Day: Which compact crossover would you choose?
ANC rejects nationalisation
- Thread starter Kornhub
- Start date
Sorry but I had to stop reading here and point out that it is a combination of the two...
OK, but even being in the top 5 for gold, never mind all the other minerals we mine here, means the mining companies won't be going anywhere soon. When there is money to be made these companies will pay what they need to pay in order to mine - personally, I would much rather they pay a tax, above board than pay a bribe, under the radar.
Australia is now the number 2 spot for gold and the " windfall resource rent tax" the ANC is now suggesting is based on the Minerals Resource Rent Tax in Australia - http://www.mining-tax.com.au/ so I don't see any way around it. Yes, government stability is one of the pillars of foreign investment, but a situation where a mine is generating super profits while the local people live in abject poverty is not tolerable either. Foreign owned mines reap huge profits at the expense of locals and when the minerals run out the investment stops and we're left with nothing. Mining is different from other industries - it exploits SA's natural resources and SA should benefit from it.
I've already pointed out where they're going...
Yes but you need to back things up and stop talking nonsense. 'Billies and Tinto, as you call them, have not pulled out of South Africa, as you claim and continue to have huge investments here. Do you really think the countries in West Africa, where all these new gold mines have been opened over the last 7 years are not going charge either a large tax or a large bribe? Mining companies are going to have to pay wherever they operate.
Then where has De Beers been going? Where is Billies going? Where is Tinto going? Why is Goldfields moving America side? Some is due to natural attrition in the industry, and the rest is due to political, economic, and policy issues, as the industry has long been vocal about...
They have operations here but investment they certainly do not. Stop talking nonsense...
Why don't you tell me where they are going, as far as I can tell they are not going anywhere...
What do you mean Goldfields is moving America side? They have mining operations all around the world as do most mining companies. As I said before, money is to be made where the minerals are and these companies will do what they must to mine it, be it taxes or corruption or whatever.
I don't even know what that means. What investments do mining companies make aside from their operations in a country?
The government royally screwed over Uramin by the way. They are a direct victim of government's bulllschit attitude towards miners, over and above their stance on socialist-driven business and taxation. Moreover, do you honestly believe that the recent events in the industry have had no impact on the strategic direction of miners? The vocal positions of the various industry associations is evidence of there being a vision to exit the country quicker than expected without investing in projects locally.
When it becomes more expensive to mine fewer resources, you don't start to punish miners on a profit basis! That is just plain fscking stupid, and is evidence of the short-sightedness of the ANC's policy decision-makers. When labour unrest begins, you nip it in the bud. You don't allow the unions to dictate output and remuneration. When investors are hard-hit because forecasts can't be met, they find other companies and even asset classes to put their money in to.
These are the direct consequences of poor policy decisions and lack of leadership, and this proposal is just another in a series of brain-farts this government has decided to offload on the industry...
When it becomes more expensive to mine fewer resources, you don't start to punish miners on a profit basis! That is just plain fscking stupid, and is evidence of the short-sightedness of the ANC's policy decision-makers. When labour unrest begins, you nip it in the bud. You don't allow the unions to dictate output and remuneration. When investors are hard-hit because forecasts can't be met, they find other companies and even asset classes to put their money in to.
These are the direct consequences of poor policy decisions and lack of leadership, and this proposal is just another in a series of brain-farts this government has decided to offload on the industry...
There are no further investments being made in SA by either Billies or Tinto and they are in talks to sell off many of their existing assets. Subsequent to the labour unrest and government's refusal to clarify their position on nationalisation, both companies removed SA from their strategic investment portfolio, and they clearly stated as such. They were quite clear about the decision being based on policy, the economy, higher cost of doing business, labour unrest, and government insistence on control of the industry. They had mulled over SA for some time considering the higher costs of extraction but eventually the government made their minds up for them...
I already pointed out where they are going. Did you not read my earlier post about West and East Africa? While you attribute this to natural attrition and forget to factor in opportunity cost loss nor the fact that local profits are funding these investments, the mining associations have and continue to be vocal about the reasons, and they've attempted to lobby government for some time now to understand the long-term effect of their policy decision, but have fallen on deaf ears...
But West Africa also has mining taxes based on the Australian model and is, in addition, is plagued by regular coups, wars, acts of terrorism, abject poverty and mass human transits. So I don't see how that could be seen as an improvement to conditions in South Africa. Rio Tinto was stripped of half of its leases covering the now stalled Simandou iron ore deposit in Guinea, so tenders and licenses are not secure as they are here...
I don't know what you mean what does intered in us invests even mean?
Anglo American bought the Oppenheimers out of De Beers and has further increased their stake with the Botswana government not taking up their right to a stake they were entitled to.
BHP just bought a stake from Anglo and Rio for Palabora mine.
Goldfields moving states side would make sense given gold mining there is at far lower depths than their mines here. Deposits in South Africa lie deep and the costs of mining are high.
While mining makes profit here, these guys will continue to operate here.
Profit is a combination of many things and risks. Your last sentence is not entirely correct! Mining is increasing all over the world. The real question is, will it do the same in South Africa?
People, what I find interesting is the way how Joelus is reasoning. He is obviously some ANC big shot (I bothered to read some of his previous posts). He basically takes the investments for granted. For as long as there is gold in the ground he thinks that nothing will change, no matter what. Obviously this is a very dangerous way of looking at the matter. If indeed this is the way how ANC is reasoning then mining production in South Africa will drop even more in the coming years/decades. @Joelus, I respect your way of thinking my friend and I hope you are right. For what is it worth and for the record on this forum, I want to say, I don't agree with you. Peace.
People, what I find interesting is the way how Joelus is reasoning. He is obviously some ANC big shot (I bothered to read some of his previous posts). He basically takes the investments for granted. For as long as there is gold in the ground he thinks that nothing will change, no matter what. Obviously this is a very dangerous way of looking at the matter. If indeed this is the way how ANC is reasoning then mining production in South Africa will drop even more in the coming years/decades. @Joelus, I respect your way of thinking my friend and I hope you are right. For what is it worth and for the record on this forum, I want to say, I don't agree with you. Peace.
genetic
Honorary Master
You couldn't figure out what he was trying to say??
I get the feeling you're just trolling now...
No, I actually really can't figure out what he is trying to say... But it's irrelevant whatever, because vaguely telling me to go read financial media doesn't really contribute to the discussion. If he has a point to make about mining here he must make it not just say go read the paper... I'm not trolling.
pampoenskyf
Banned
It is the one industry government should protect and embrace at ALL times and at ALL cost -- not put more pressure on it FFS 
pampoenskyf
Banned
Well put but WTF does this mean?
But your opinion of my knowledge, or lack of it, is irrelevant to a discussion about mining. DJ is asserting (if I understand him right) that all these companies are pulling out of SA (untrue, as far as I can tell) as a direct result of our government's actions (which he hasn't shown) and that an added tax will speed up this departure - despite the fact that this tax is a growing international trend found in all these countries the companies are supposedly turning to. I have no doubt DJ is more knowledgeable than me (and you?) but that's not really relevant. I do, by the way, read moneyweb, bloomberg, etc, but as a layman so sometimes things taken for granted by people more educated than me might go over my head. I accept that, sure...