ANC wants new Constitution

The ANC don't have nearly enough support to change the constitution.... they won the last election on a "remember us we liberated you" ticket.

Now that they have announced what they are going to do its going to change the dynamic of the party quite a bit. Look at how they have handled Malema, look at the rifts that it created, look at how the relationship with the unions has soured.
The ANC face a bashing in parliament every day from the opposition parties their support structure is crumbling below them.

They are too communist for the capitalists and too capitalist for the communists... they can't win. The best province in the country is run by the opposition, the next best provinces are almost run by the opposition. The worst provinces in the country are their main bases of support... and unfortunately for them also where the internal structure is failing the most.

The ANC have no chance of changing the constitution legally and if they do it illegally we will know all about it.... firstly from inside the organization its self
 
Fudzy said:
Did you not find a job before looking for another one? You seem to have settled into selling cars quite well though.
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That's what happens when you are retrenched. The school was sold to a cram college and I was offered a job at their other campus which would have been an hour extra on the road each morning, so I decided to take a package and find a job nearer to home....that's when the drama started.
 
Nerfherder said:
The ANC don't have nearly enough support to change the constitution.... they won the last election on a "remember us we liberated you" ticket.

Now that they have announced what they are going to do its going to change the dynamic of the party quite a bit. Look at how they have handled Malema, look at the rifts that it created, look at how the relationship with the unions has soured.
The ANC face a bashing in parliament every day from the opposition parties their support structure is crumbling below them.

They are too communist for the capitalists and too capitalist for the communists... they can't win. The best province in the country is run by the opposition, the next best provinces are almost run by the opposition. The worst provinces in the country are their main bases of support... and unfortunately for them also where the internal structure is failing the most.

The ANC have no chance of changing the constitution legally and if they do it illegally we will know all about it.... firstly from inside the organization its self
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Great summary, especially the bolded bit.
 
This is all posturing from the ANC....

Scary posturing, but posturing none-the-less.
 
A question to some of the forumites, if the ANC had included the "fair discrimination" bit of the constitution some here always complain about, would you still be against changing some of it?
 
Nerfherder said:
The ANC don't have nearly enough support to change the constitution.... they won the last election on a "remember us we liberated you" ticket.

Now that they have announced what they are going to do its going to change the dynamic of the party quite a bit. Look at how they have handled Malema, look at the rifts that it created, look at how the relationship with the unions has soured.
The ANC face a bashing in parliament every day from the opposition parties their support structure is crumbling below them.

They are too communist for the capitalists and too capitalist for the communists... they can't win. The best province in the country is run by the opposition, the next best provinces are almost run by the opposition. The worst provinces in the country are their main bases of support... and unfortunately for them also where the internal structure is failing the most.

The ANC have no chance of changing the constitution legally and if they do it illegally we will know all about it.... firstly from inside the organization its self
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Well, as the ANC is keen to remind everyone they are a "liberation movement." Not a political party. They have served their purpose and are now way past their expiry date. They simply cannot change, and it would be best for this country if they go the same way as the Nats.
 
D.B.Cooper said:
Well, as the ANC is keen to remind everyone they are a "liberation movement." Not a political party. They have served their purpose and are now way past their expiry date. They simply cannot change, and it would be best for this country if they go the same way as the Nats.
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But they are going the same way as the Nats. Censorship, racism, secrecy, flat-out lies, you name it. Only real difference is they are communists where the Nats were very much in favour of capitalism.
 
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I spoke to my boet who is studying law and this is what he said about the Consitution.

Certain sections (The most important parts) of the Constitution (Bill of Rights, Chapters 1 & 2 etc.) require a 2/3 parlimentary majority to amend them.

However, even if the 2/3 majority is obtained and the legislature (Parliament) passes the amendment, it can still be challenged in the consitutional court and the judges can over-rule the goverment or "Veto" the government. However the consitutional court does not need to ratify the decision, I.E. they cannot overrule the government unless someone challenges the constutionality of a law and brings their case to the court.

Apprently the less important sections only require around a 50% majority or less than 2/3 (Not 100% sure but pretty close).

In theory this is supposed to prevent ANY government from doing whatever it wants and thus protect individual rights. However, if the constitutional judges are in the ANC's pocket, then they will not likely veto anything that parliament passes.

So the fact we have a consitution and a constitutional court is no guarentee of anything, and the ANC has been trying to get its cronies to the court for years and years, effectively putting their own judges in place. They are now apparently openly and publically questioning the judiciary, probable because they know as it stands, they haven't got control.

The question of whether or not the constitutonal system can even be relied on in the next 5-10 years to protect us was actually brought up in the last South African Libertarian Seminar held in October 2011 in Cape Town by an economist from solidarity (The one who wrote the paper published by solidarity promoting the virtues of private mine ownership) and his position was the way things have been going, he doesn't feel long-term we can rely on a piece of paper and a few human beings to protect us (I.E. The constitutional system)

At the end of the day you need to convince the ANC supporters, because it really doesn't matter what the leaders want to do, they have to bow down to supporter pressure. This is the trick. If millions of people support the ANC in this action plan, then it is simply a matter of time before this happens. It stops being an "If" question and becomes a "when".

Does the DA have any power to prevent the ANC from appointing its people to the constitutional court? No? The current judges simply are the ones who decide, since they have been changing to ANC cronies (Look at the last guy...he said God wants him to be a Cons. Judge) it is more likely that it will be easier for the ANC to get its people onto the Constitutional Court.

Nothing we can do, or the DA can do. The DA will never change the majority of supporters to push against the ANC leadership or changes parties. A few moderates here and there but they don't represent the political powerbase in this country.

In short...this is VERY scary.
 
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How do you shut down the DA and the Western Cape? You scrap Provinces and let central government run the country.
 
All this hysteria reminds me of before Polokwane. Its amazing how history repeats itself :D
 
ghoti said:
All this hysteria reminds me of before Polokwane. Its amazing how history repeats itself :D
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It's amazing how when people raise legitimate concerns, not based on some hysteria from their own personal insecurities, but based on something the ruling party has officially stated, you have no advice, and instead, mock them as being paranoid.

1. The ANC has already started having political appointee's to the consitutional court. I think I remember you complaining that Judge Mogoeng was a bit of a loon. I am inclined to believe he was Zuma's and the ANC's choice for the position because of his political beliefs. I am more inclined to believe it is because Zuma and the ANC feels he will back them, rather than he will stand against them.

I do not feel Zuma/ANC positioned him as their preferred candidate because they felt the man was neutral, unbiased, fair, mature and an excellent interpreter of the letter and intention of the law in South Africa.

The fact such a man was appointed raises some questions. There were FAR more qualified people.

So we must make 1 of 3 assumptions.
1. It was a deliberate political move.
2. That Zuma/ANC honestly feel he is unbiased, mature and an excellent judge. (Which is arguing the ANC is stupid and innocent. Kinda of like a socialist in fact. Naive but with the most noble of intentions.)
3. That Zuma/ANC just appointed a pal, because they liked him and he is their friend etc. (A crony but not a political appointee)

I must assume, based on your response, that your position is it is one of the last 2 of the above and there was no political motivation behind the appointment.

My advice to you is just because you and your DA pals disagree with the ANC, doesn't mean they are idiots. Don't just assume they are just being stupid and "innocent" and there is no alternative political motive. That is a bit arrogant and conceited and naive from your part.

Secondly: The ANC has OPENLY stated it wants to amend the constitution in order for it to put into play some growth plan it has. Clearly some individual right the consitution is there to protect prevents the ANC from doing this. The only part of the constitution I am aware of that can prevent any ANC growth plan, is the part that protects individual property rights and the parts concerning the independence of the Reserve Bank.

As much as I hate Central Banks (Monopoly privilage granted by the state) they do a much better job of protecting currency value than a bank ENTIRELY owned and run by the state, who's real mission is to print money for the state. (There is no other reason for this). Again, we all know the consquences of the state printing money into abandon.

All people are asking is:
> Why do the ANC want this?
> Can the ANC obtain this?
> How would this affect me?

Remember, BY ALL INDEPENDANT MEASUREMENTS OF ECONOMIC FREEDOM, South Africa has been going down hill since about 2000 (1994-2000 I think we improved in most areas) which is independant evidence of the erosion of personal freedom and increase power and control of the state.

Put a frog in boiling water and he'll jump out.
Put a frog in cold water and heat it up slowly and the frog will boil to death.

The latter has been slowly happening for years.

Ghoti's message is clear on this: You are all paranoid, put your heads back down in the sand, don't ask questions, it isn't good for you. Ghoti is a terrible example for the DA, they clearly don't care about your concerns as citizens, aren't worried and are full of themselves.

(Ironically a number of PROMINENT SA Business Men and Leaders, including a prominent journalist (Not a friend of the Free Market Foundation), black and white, have recently approached the Free Market Foundation expressing their concerns about the trajectory this country is on and that they feel they now need to step in and do something as they are extremely worried. These are people who were not worried during the apartheid/new SA transitition, or Zuma as President, but now something has them concerned and they want to help and see the FMF as the best hope this country has (Policy/Court battles etc.) - Again Ghoti disagrees with these people, but he didn't build a JSE listed company from scratch so why listen to him?)

PEACE PEEPS!
 
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Judge Mogoeng Mogoeng has been nominated by President Jacob Zuma to replace retired Judge Sandile Ngcobo as Chief Justice, an indication that institution building is now top of Zuma’s judicial agenda. CARIEN DU PLESSIS reports.
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http://dailymaverick.co.za/article/...-mogoeng-the-answer-to-zumas-judicial-prayers

Remember this? No political motive? Come now.

Do you feel the ANC will stop? Perhaps. What they are saying now openly in public means they are going in the wrong direction.

Will massive change happen soon? Probably not. (A personal opinion of mine) I don't know how long the ANC will have to wait until the next Cons. Judge retires, but the ANC has admitted it wants the judiciary and its role in the new SA debated at the Polokwane conference.

But, "Put your heads back in the sands!" - A message sponsored by our DA pals!
 
Look how glad people like sox are about all this. They can barely contain their excitement.
 
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