ANCYL: Liquidation decision flawed

[BLIXEMPIE]

We respect the decision but we think the judge is wrong. Story of ancyl.

 

[daveza]

We respect the decision but we think the judge is drunk.

ftfy

 

[Mila]

They are asking the public to give money.
I guess Winney and Tokyo will donate the needed cash.

 

[Johnone]

They are asking the public to give money.
I guess Winney and Tokyo will donate the needed cash.

The question is, are they still supporting Malema, and thus EFF?

 

[Paul Hjul]

Sorry, what? People are sequestrated, companies are liquidated. If concursis has arisen - creditors are free to prove their claims or not. Those that chose not to (because of the risk of a pay in) do not have a claim against the estate that is recognisable or enforceable. That is what happens between provisional liquidation and final liquidation. Final liquidation only arises once the estate has been fully and finally dealt with.

I will need to check the media reports - and hopefully at some point the actual judgment and Order - but I got an impression that it was reported that a provisional liquidation had been granted and a nisi for somewhere in January for a final liquidation and sequestration. It may well be of course that the YL from the outset has responded to frame away from the term liquidation as part of a misguided stratagem to portray liquidation as "company" thing. Of course the Insolvency Act excludes associations of persons from the definition of debtor in the Act but the YL would like to be its own animal.

The point being that companies liquidation is regulated by statute so there is a provisional liquidation and a final liquidation which ensures wind up. An individual is sequestrated not liquidated - for one thing we don't turn people into mush - which involves the surrender of assets and so on BUT an individual can be rehabilitated from sequestration and don't cease to exist (as happens if a juristic person is wound up). In a partnership the partners can be sequestrated and so on but "a body corporate or a company or other association of persons which may be placed in liquidation under the law relating to Companies" cannot be sequestrated it is liquidated [and cue the disingenius interpretation that the "laws relating to Companies" does not apply to voluntary associations so they fall under the Insolvency Act sequestration .... - bull**** but no surprise in it being claimed, as in effect that is the YL's claim].

If there is a suggestion that the Youth League is facing sequestration and the legislation or precedent affords some special dispensation for a sequestrated person (like retention of books and tools of the trade unless specifically directed by the court IIRC) which does not apply in liquidation you can put in a bet that such special dispensation would be sought and litigated on. I would be specifically concerned about the officers of the youth league which is in provisional liquidation having a task team negotiating on the side with certain creditors and the landlord and so on. The last thing that should be allowed to happen - and I don't believe that the law allows for it but lets be cynical for a moment - is for the ANCYL to have its current physical assets (and I don't believe it owns any immovable property) form part of a liquidation which pays out pennies in the rand on debt, followed by the ANC supervising the election of a new ANCYL leadership which is merely deprived of that physical property and is deemed to be in a sequestrated state with all of the related disabilities - to of course the parent ANC's benefit.

It may be nothing other than ambiguous reporting but I have a horrible fear that between the insolvency legislation and company legislation a gap for voluntary associations who ought to be liquidated and wound up in accordance with the constitution of the organization which is known to the members and is open to be known by the creditors. Even the smallest gap or imagined gap is likely to be misused by the ANC and ANCYL.

As I understand it a voluntary association would be liquidated through the provisional liquidation and a final order will find the association wound up and the liquidation discharged as finalized. I really don't know how often voluntary associations have found themselves opposing a final liquidation because it will make significantly more sense to dissolve; frankly I think credit control checks on political organizations has been sloppy. In fact it is only religious organizations and political parties that create a massive fray as voluntary associations - there is the occasional pesky residents association that makes a municipalities life difficult through litigation and other residents associations which spend a lot of money on unsuccessful litigation.

I don't think the DAYL can get the residual of ANCYL despite its value as a LOL because the YL core precedes competing as a political party support organization and is likely to best be stated with reference to the Freedom Charter or whatever, COPE Youth or the EFF might be able to put in a Freedom Charter claim and hell it would be a fun fest. But this is exactly why I don't see why the liquidator can't get a hell of a return off the organization on auction.