ANCYL trashes toilets

[SmartKit]

This morning I got to see what these "toilets" look like on eNews... And all I can say is EPIC FAIL on the DA's part. The "structures" they put up are makeshift & must get hot as hell on a mild summer's day (even in the WC). And then there are those that are just "toilets". If they intended for there to be covering they could at least have out the whole thing on a concrete slab. I mean even the ANC tenderpreuner know this basic rule. FAIL DA, FAIL!

The ANC did the same thing. Where were you yelling FAIL, ANC, FAIL! then?

 

[trinityEon]

It was a work in progress, according to the contractors.

they were building these walls. http://hackedgadgets.com/2006/08/11/mirror-public-toilet/ they put the walls the wrong way around and are waiting for orders and stock

These people just didn't want to wait for the shipment to arrive

BTW i wonder if the contractor was a tender from Julias

 

[capd]

So wait, previously the deal was NO ENCLOSURES, then because the residents hadnt bothered to enclose these last 50, the government made a plan and did the enclosures for them, as good as the budget would allow. And they still skimped? I'm lost. Surely, if they did NOTHING, that would be skimping?

Most probably agreed out of desperation. Many still would have wanted and known that concrete is better.

Skimp : work hastily or carelessly; deal with inadequately and superficially

Did you see the toilets? Maybe then you will understand why I said skimp. Skimp implies that something is there.

What difference does that make? Like it or not, most of South Africa is in poverty, and the budget for upliftment of communities is tight. Remember, nearly all that money is provided for by the tax base, which is vanishingly small compared to the size of the population. Unless you want to raise tax rates to 75%, and drive everyone away, there just isnt enough money to provide for everyone. There is enough to offer basic amenities, and thats exactly what was offered, but the ANCYL decided to mess it up for the entire community.

Oh I agree. I am giving you perspective from the residents and how they feel though. Whatever the ANCYL did, there were still residents that were unhappy regardless of political alignment.

Quite so. Why then is the WC being accused of being lazy and/or skint? Did they not provide at all? No, they did provide, but the ANCYL destroyed it. Show me a township in the EC that even has individual toilets, covered or not. And then tell me how cr@p the DA is.

Because firstly it is a political smear campaign and secondly there are genuinely unhappy residents who want more out of life than weak metal enclosures that are prone to destruction from the elements.

And where these non violent actions? Is threatening to destroy the city non violent? Then why are you defending the ANCYL?

Where am I defending the ANCYL? I am defending human beings who are genuinely unhappy regardless of the political alignment, motivation, smear campaigns whichthe ANCYL obviously jumped on.

 

[capd]

So you don't know, but at the same time assume there must have been more money?

It's a fact, not assumption. the 50 enclosures that were previously not able to be provided on the basis that there was no money, were now being provided. Therefore the money was there, or came from somewhere.

Is that a political party? People for Strong Weather-resistant Toilet Enclosures perhaps?

Way to go making a joke to desensitize the genuine issue.

As I see it, the DA did the best they could at the time.
If the ANCYL and community was dissatisfied with the construction material, they could have brought that to the attention of the relevant authorities and then worked together in solving the problem. Breaking everything down, putting yourself back on square one, is not going to suddenly produce more budget to have it rebuild.

If you read the articles then you will see that the community decided to reject the offer.

 

[avaratz]

In a book I read set in apartheid (Zakes Mda - The Madonna of Excelsior), the author speaks about how the ANC encouraged black people not to pay taxes in a form of protest. In the book he speaks about this again after apartheid, and remarks how the culture of non-payment and entitlement lingers even after liberation. It's a mindset that seriously needs to be changed.

He is a previously disadvantaged black citizen, and he can see this problem. Very good book btw.

 

[Nod]

It's a fact, not assumption. the 50 enclosures that were previously not able to be provided on the basis that there was no money, were now being provided. Therefore the money was there, or came from somewhere.

If you don't know where the money came from, you also wouldn't know how much there was to spend. You are assuming that there are more money, which might not be the case.

Way to go making a joke to desensitize the genuine issue.

You made it first, I just repackaged it. Didn't think it was that funny though

If you read the articles then you will see that the community decided to reject the offer.

After meeting with the ANCYL. Would they have been unhappy without that meeting?
How about the people that were actually happy about the construction?

 

[capd]

Changed their view or were they brainwashed by the ANCYL? Don't you find it odd that the 99% of community agreed to the enclosures yet they were unaware of the intended material to be used ? Do you honestly believe that not one out of the 99% enquired about the intended material to be used before agreeing?

My guess is they are desperate? And even more so that Winter's here?

They may well have changed their minds but that does not justify hooliganism.

Nothing justifies it, but it doesn't mean that you can't understand how it can be a last resort for some.

I have seen photos of the toilets, personally I would have preferred a concrete structure but then again I would also have enquired about this before agreeing.

I'm glad you were as appalled as R13 and myself.

You talk about upliftment of the previously disadvantaged, well, they were uplifted in the respect of having a crap in privacy, granted, ithe enclosures were not ideal but they were enclosures! Now, because of their "lets break it down' attitude they are back where they started.

Because they still have hopes for concrete toilets which are logically safer, longer lasting and weather resistant? Because they are sick of the bare minimum?

 

[Jola]

It's a fact, not assumption. the 50 enclosures that were previously not able to be provided on the basis that there was no money, were now being provided. Therefore the money was there, or came from somewhere.

From another project, for other poor people - maybe someone now doesn't get a house, and the Cape winter is arriving soon ....

You think money grows on trees, certainly seems so !!!

 

[blonde one]

and secondly there are genuinely unhappy residents who want more out of life than weak metal enclosures that are prone to destruction from the elements.

I see, it's ok for the ANCYL to destroy them but it's not ok for them to be destroyed by the elements? :erm: Nice try

 

[capd]

My ex-wife's family moved to Johannesburg in the 1930's, from the Karoo farms with the really bad drought, during the Great Depression. They had no homes, no schooling, they lived in garages with self-built longdrops, etc. But they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, and made it to a better life - not that they were ever wealthy !.

Goodness knows what it would have been like if one was of a darker skin colour.

 

[Jola]

Goodness knows what it would have been like if one was of a darker skin colour.

Much, much better ! Free house and free (enclosed) toilet, no problem !!!

The culture of entitlement pays great dividends !

Spoilt brats !!!!

 

[Ancalagon]

Most probably agreed out of desperation. Many still would have wanted and known that concrete is better.

Not according to the articles. Some residents were very upset that their enclosures were destroyed.

Skimp : work hastily or carelessly; deal with inadequately and superficially

Did you see the toilets? Maybe then you will understand why I said skimp. Skimp implies that something is there.

Again, we get back to the issue of budget. Where is the money for polished steel and marble going to come from? Is it better to have nothing, which they have now, or what they had? With the promise that, at some point, proper houses will be built for them.

Oh I agree. I am giving you perspective from the residents and how they feel though. Whatever the ANCYL did, there were still residents that were unhappy regardless of political alignment.

Were they really? Then why are some complaining that the ANCYL destroyed their toilets?

Because firstly it is a political smear campaign and secondly there are genuinely unhappy residents who want more out of life than weak metal enclosures that are prone to destruction from the elements.

Yes, it is a smear campaign. Again, and again, its the budget issue. Their shacks withstand the elements, what makes you think those structures would not have.

Where am I defending the ANCYL? I am defending human beings who are genuinely unhappy regardless of the political alignment, motivation, smear campaigns whichthe ANCYL obviously jumped on.

Because you seem to be thinking that the community was geniunely not happy with these, whereas the reality is the ANCYL is unhappy that the DA provides where the ANC cannot. Just read the articles! Did you skip the part where it said there was no problem with 1250 of them, and of the last 50, most of the residents are pissed with the YL for demolishing them.

 

[PeterCH]

In a book I read set in apartheid (Zakes Mda - The Madonna of Excelsior), the author speaks about how the ANC encouraged black people not to pay taxes in a form of protest. In the book he speaks about this again after apartheid, and remarks how the culture of non-payment and entitlement lingers even after liberation. It's a mindset that seriously needs to be changed.

He is a previously disadvantaged black citizen, and he can see this problem. Very good book btw.

It's an obvious and well recognised problem. People learn from their parents and peers. That's culture. If your culture was always to oppose the government you will continue to do it unless you become well educated and gain insight. We don't have that in SA. The working class will continue to be manipulated by the YLs, Communist Parties, nationalist movements etc.

 

[avaratz]

It's an obvious and well recognised problem. People learn from their parents and peers. That's culture. If your culture was always to oppose the government you will continue to do it unless you become well educated and gain insight. We don't have that in SA. The working class will continue to be manipulated by the YLs, Communist Parties, nationalist movements etc.

Yup. And as the ANC knows, an educated vote is a vote against them (which is why COPE gained so much popularity amongst the newly educated black population). Because of this, they will strive to keep the majority uneducated and poor, whilst telling them otherwise (JULIAAAAS). Because then it's easy to get their vote - call whites racist, spend some taxpayers money on food for the poor 2 weeks before the election, and their vote is guaranteed. Vicious cycle.

 

[BTTB]

How about drop holes with camouflage netting around them, like we had in the army.

 

[Gawain]

Analysis: The ANC's real 'night terrors' - the DA-run Western Province

Sometimes when writing about politics, the only person you can turn to is that well-known observer of The Force, Yoda. And if he saw what's happening in Western Cape, he would no doubt repeat his famous quote, Fear leads to hate, hate leads to anger, anger leads tosuffering. Much fear he would sense in the ANC in that province at the moment. Mmmm.

What else could be driving it to resort to public violence and vandalism. On the face of it, people forced to live in the area of Makhaza in Kayelitsha have every right to be angry. No one likes to have to do their private business in a public bog. And for the City of Cape Town to build toilets without any kind of protection from the elements was probably a political mistake. Yes, there was an agreement with the community that the city would build the lavatories and the people would build the walls, that all makes perfect sense. But the City should have known it was never going to work out like that.

It was the chance the ANC had been waiting for. At last, after all this time, a chance to jump down the DA's throat about something. They'd had to wait for quite a long time after all, which perhaps says more about the pothole-infested World Class African City than it does about the DA.

In the end the city went in and installed some corrugated iron shelters. Not great, no windows or anything like that, and the smell must have been horrific, but there we are. The mayor Dan Plato went himself to make sure it was done good and proper. He'd taken the precaution of making sure the residents were as happy as they could be over the affair.

But members of the ANC Youth League, people who also say they're from a group living in the area, went in and destroyed the enclosures. Interestingly, as far as we know, none of them was arrested, but there is footage and pictures aplenty of the ANC's new form of direct action. Now that same group of pacifists is urging the youth to vandalise the city. They want to make it ungovernable. That's how they're going to take out the Death Star.

Now, before we get on our high horse and point out that this is not the best way to win friends and influence people in a democratic state, there is a dispute over a few facts. Most media reports quote residents weren't happy with corrugated iron, but said it was better than the windy dumps they replaced. The ANCYL's people dispute that. Their argument, as cogently as we can put it, seems to say that because the majority of these residents were opposed to the structures, they must be destroyed because majority rules. These are the people who miss the Constitutional part of the constitutional democracy in which we live. So if all the right-handed people in the country wanted to kill all the left-handed people, that, according to this logic, would be perfectly fine.

The national office of the League says this isn't true. Well, we think that's what they're saying, because its spokesman Floyd Shivambu had a brief conversation with the unfortunate Sapa reporter who was asked to call him. Being his usual eloquent self, he asked how can you call yourself a journalist? before saying how can you tell such lies?. So he's on the ball then.

We must just mention at this point that to speak of one ANC in the Western Cape is a bit of a misnomer. It's a party that's balkanised. There are massive problems within the ANC there. It's hugely divided and that means we cannot presume this action has the backing of most, or even many, of the party's members in the province.

In this case it seems the law, allied to the strong force that is Helen Zille, will probably prevail. With a bit of luck, the residents themselves will find a way to deal with the youth.

But this is just one incident. You have to ask how it is that so much is going so right in Cape Town that the ANC has to resort to trashing toilets. Is there really nothing else they can pick on? And to accuse the DA of racism just doesn't wash any more. We get the feeling that middle-class black people actually just ignore that claim. Slowly, more and more people in this country are beginning to see race as not the prime determinant of their opinion.

Now, think about this. In Gauteng, Premier (for now) Nomvula Mokonyane has just finished her Quality of Life Report in Gauteng's municipalities. No, Joburg didn't win. Midvaal did. And, guess who controls Midvaal? The party's name means yes in Russian. So one presumes Midvaal will be run by the DA again after next year's elections.

We think Western Province will too. To pick on an issue of toilets is not going to win you an election. It's 50 toilets in one place. What it will do is demonstrate how scared you are. How, in Western Cape, the ANC needs to accept more of Yoda's wisdom, that losing, like death, is a part of life. We're not sure it will.

The better run Cape Town is, the more apparent will be the disarray in Johannesburg and Pretoria. The opposition-run Western Cape could be the shape of things to come. Eventually, the silent majority will wake up one day and realise that they care more about who provides good infrastructure, safe streets and well-run schools and hospitals than about politics of race and conflict.

That is the day our ruling political elite fears the most.

By Stephen Grootes

(Grootes is an Eyewitness News reporter)

http://www.thedailymaverick.co.za/article/2010-05-26-analysis-the-ancs-real-night-terrors-the-da-run-western-province

DA vs ANC who will be the ultimate winner in the end?

 

[trinityEon]

I see, it's ok for the ANCYL to destroy them but it's not ok for them to be destroyed by the elements? :erm: Nice try

The ANCYL can destroy them because Juliass never get the tender, this way Juliass can can tender again and get it... and provide free Nando's while you do your business LOL

 

[capd]

Yes they certainly changed their view, instead of having privacy inside an enclosure they are once again in full view of everyone.

Lol

 

[daveza]

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/article470520.ece/Pupils-run-amok-destroy-school

A Transkei school has been left a shell after pupils went on a rampage, breaking all the windows at the school and leaving the structure in ruins.

Damage at the rural no-fee school is estimated at about R44000 after the pupils from Caba Comprehensive School ran amok three weeks ago after they were told that there were no funds for a tour to Queenstown .

Frustrated principal Thandiswa Mpama told the Dispatch yesterday that the pupils turned violent after they demanded that staff account for every cent spent at the school during 2009.

How long before the ancyl protests about cold classrooms.

 

[capd]

Knock knock

I'm hungry

Ok, here are some sandwiches.

I want pizza

We don't have pizza

I don't want sandwiches

Then you can't be that hungry.

Knock knock.

I'm hungry

Ok, here are some sandwiches.

I want pizza

We don't have pizza.

But you have the ingredients for the pizza and equipment to make it

Then you can't be that hungry.

I am very hungry for something more than sandwiches. I placed my order a very long time ago and my stomach and heart cannot take it anymore

Tough sh*t.

I will not accept to be treated like that when you were able to serve that customer with a garlic and pepperdew foccacia and that one with a BLT + avo sammich
Accepting your offer would mean that I am giving in to you will then be able to tick off my overdue and incomplete order and then forget about making pizzas again for another indefinite period while my stomach and heart continues to affect my ability and everyone around me.

My attempt at what I think their rendition would be