Anglo could pull plug on Eskom coal supply

Nope they can't and neither could ET :p

This guy is trying to bait people, but really doing a piss poor job of it. ET, really?
Anyway - back to the topic at hand. The big problem here is that Eskom's BEE requirements seem to be different than the one Anglo is complying with. That should make this easier to sort out.
 
ZFCOutcast,

Let me help you:
Constitutional Court rules in Kumba’s favour on Sishen rights

SISHEN Iron Ore Company, which already has a 78.6% share of the right to mine the Sishen mine in the Northern Cape, was the only entity competent to apply for, and be granted, the remaining 21.4% right, the Constitutional Court ruled on Thursday.

Before the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act came into force, Sishen and ArcelorMittal SA were co-owners of the mineral rights at the Sishen mine, holding 78.6% and 21.4% respectively. When, under the act, they were required to convert their old order rights to new order rights, Sishen did so successfully, but ArcelorMittal SA failed to apply.

The ruling in effect gives the Kumba Iron Ore subsidiary, itself majority owned by global mining conglomerate Anglo American, the 100% mineral right to the mine. This means the Sishen Iron Ore Company has defeated appeals by the Department of Mineral Resources and politically connected Imperial Crown Trading, after the department had earlier controversially transferred ArcelorMittal SA’s old 21.4% partial mining right at Sishen to the little-known empowerment group.

But while the judgment primarily ends a long legal wrangle between Kumba Iron Ore, Sishen, ArcelorMittal SA, the department and Imperial Crown Trading, it has also underscored a new supply agreement between Kumba and ArcelorMittal SA signed last month, which was conditional upon Kumba having the 100% right.

ArcelorMittal SA would now get up to 6.25-million tonnes of iron ore a year for up to $20 less per tonne than it had been recently paying. This was after it drew a line with Kumba under a long, acrimonious and separate arbitration dispute that began when Kumba halted supply to the steel maker of iron ore at cost plus 3% after the steel maker let its old order right at Sishen lapse.

This ultracheap iron-ore supply deal had previously been mandated by the state after the unbundling of former state steel entity Iscor’s mining and steel divisions from about 2000, as part of the government’s drive to achieve a “developmental” steel price in South Africa. The upshot of the highest court’s decision on Thursday is that the state will now not easily get this discount for its proposed R4-trillion infrastructure programme.

“The settlement and supply agreement concluded by ArcelorMittal and (Sishen Iron Ore) in November 2013 is not affected by the above mentioned judgment,” ArcelorMittal SA said on Thursday.

The Constitutional Court judgment resoundingly puts Imperial Crown Trading out of the picture. But legally and technically, Sishen Iron Ore is not yet the 100% holder of the right. It may still have to jump through some hoops to get there as the department may impose conditions if they are permissible under the Minerals Act, according to the ruling.

However, a spokeswoman for Kumba, Yvonne Mfolo, said yesterday it would “continue as if we are (the) 100% owner”.

“So the new (pricing) agreement (with ArcelorMittal SA) will kick off (on January 1) as planned. If things change in the long run, then we will reconsider our position, should the need arise.”

Department spokeswoman Ayanda Shezi said yesterday it was still drafting a statement. “As soon as I get it I will send it through. If not this evening, it will be early tomorrow,” she said.

Mark Cutifani, the CEO of Anglo American, which holds 70% of Kumba, said the ruling was “a great story for SA”. He said it demonstrated that “legitimate” mining companies that had “put their claims in appropriately will be protected by the courts”.

As the arbitration proceedings between Kumba and ArcelorMittal SA continued, ArcelorMittal SA also stepped into the court fray. It said it had never needed to apply to convert in the first place because when Sishen made its application to convert, what it received was a 100% mining right.

The high court and the Supreme Court of Appeal agreed. But not the Constitutional Court judges. Justice Chris Jafta said the lower courts had “erred” in the way they had characterised an “old order” and “divided mining right” under the Minerals Act.

The court said that, generally, if someone failed to apply for a conversion and it lapsed, it would be open to the state — as custodian of SA’s minerals — to reallocate the right. This could be done in a way that would enhance objectives of the Minerals Act, including broadening the pool of beneficiaries of mineral wealth.

However, where there were these divided rights, only the party that had one share could apply for the rest, said Justice Dikgang Moseneke. “In my judgment, where an old order right was formerly held by X and Y in undivided shares, and X has converted its old order right but Y has failed to do so, the state may not grant Y’s undivided share to Z,” he said. “This case is unlikely to establish a precedent.”
 
ZFCOutcast,

Let me help you:

beyond_help_garfield_tile_coaster.jpg
 
The big problem here is that Eskom's BEE requirements seem to be different than the one Anglo is complying with. That should make this easier to sort out.

Indeed. Problem is Anglo's coal project satisfies Department of Mineral Resources Mining Charter target (26%) to mine coal but does not satisfy Eskom Department of Public Enterprises BEE target (51%) to supply coal.

Minerals Minister Ramatlhodi said that government talking with "two voices" needed to be corrected. Ramatlhodi said there were no plans to increase the BEE requirement from 26% to 51% - the original goal under the Mining Charter.
 
Moot point! The precedent set in your reference does not apply in the context inferred in this thread.

That Concourt decision was regarding Mining rights and the Governments attempt to hard hand their way into Sishen. They failed, and they will fail again should they try and remove mining rights to Anglo. I'm rather blown away by your inability to comprehend what it is you're even thinking. Not sure if you're trolling or just being naĂŻve tbh.
 
That Concourt decision was regarding Mining rights and the Governments attempt to hard hand their way into Sishen. They failed, and they will fail again should they try and remove mining rights to Anglo. I'm rather blown away by your inability to comprehend what it is you're even thinking. Not sure if you're trolling or just being naĂŻve tbh.
I read it perfectly. But the context of our discussion dwarfs the kind of values involved in this case and the related complications. In this case you think the ConCourt would rubber stamp a decision that would bankrupt a country. It would never happen.

I think you;re the one who doesn't understand what that ruling was really about. I'd like to think Mark read way too much into it too. but then again why wouldn't he. Any spin on something positive stands to benefit his share price and industry confidence. But those more diligent are/were not fooled.

You seemed to ignore this part of that link "This case is unlikely to establish a precedent." Why?
 
I read it perfectly. But the context of our discussion dwarfs the kind of values involved in this case and the related complications. In this case you think the ConCourt would rubber stamp a decision that would bankrupt a country. It would never happen.

I think you;re the one who doesn't understand what that ruling was really about. I'd like to think Mark read way too much into it too. but then again why wouldn't he. Any spin on something positive stands to benefit his share prices and industry confidence. But those more diligent are/were not fooled.

You seemed to ignore this part of that link "This case is unlikely to establish a precedent." Why?

Because each case has it's own merits just like the Sishen one had it's own. The Concourt is there to uphold right from wrong no matter the cost. It will give the Government the choice, pay Anglo Billions or let them mine. Obvious decision to be made by the Government in this case. Unless the ANC wants to bankrupt the country.

You're complete lack of even remotely understanding this is astounding tbh. You seem to think Government can clap their hands and Anglo must just accept it? You lost your marbles mate seriously :D
 
...Governments attempt to hard hand their way into Sishen...
Did govt really try to abuse its power or did they act sincerely on misplaced understanding?

ArcelorMittal knew what they were doing when they let their rights lapse - "It said it had never needed to apply to convert in the first place because when Sishen made its application to convert, what it received was a 100% mining right.". They were banking on the old state-initiated deal, but their new agreement with Sishen means they still benefit, and I'm pretty sure they helped to "collapse" the case in Sishen's favour in order to benefit accordingly.

Fair enough the gvt is stuffed, and will have to pay more, but they can easily recover that through taxes which will hit Sishen&Co even if they opt to focus on exports, plus to supply gvt you need to meet BEE ownership thresh-holds, so gvt still wins. No clear way out.

But legally and technically, Sishen Iron Ore is not yet the 100% holder of the right. It may still have to jump through some hoops to get there as the department may impose conditions if they are permissible under the Minerals Act, according to the ruling.

Bear in mind that Dikgang Moseneke is white capital's lackey. A so-called Progressive&liberal" judge. It's no accident that both Mbeki&Zuma are in agreement about the danger he posed and sidelined him. Thankfully he's out of the picture soon, and if there's one thing Mbeki&Zuma have been consistent about it's that the Judiciary will not be allowed to make this country run by the courts - on the basis of shrewdly crafted&"unfair" constitution, against the mandate of the people. Project "Cleanse the Judicary" will be complete by the time the next general elections are held (2019). That I can assure you.
 
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Did govt really try to abuse its power or did they act on misplaced understanding?

ArcelorMittal knew what they were doing when they let their rights lapse - "It said it had never needed to apply to convert in the first place because when Sishen made its application to convert, what it received was a 100% mining right.". They were banking on the old state-initiated deal, but their new agreement with Sishen means they still benefit, and I'm pretty sure they helped to "collapse" the case in Sishen's favour in order to benefit accordingly.

Fair enough the gvt is stuffed, and will have to pay more, but they can easily recover that through taxes which will hit Sishen&Co even if they opt to focus on exports, plus to supply gvt you need to meet BEE ownership thresh-holds, so gvt still wins. No clear way out.



Bear in mind that Dikgang Moseneke is white capital's lackey. A so-called Progressive&liberal" judge. It's no accident that both Mbeki&Zuma are in agreement about the danger he posed and sidelined him. Thankfully he's out of the picture soon, and if there's one thing Mbeki&Zuma have been consistent about it's that the Judiciary will not be allowed to make this country run by the courts - on the basis of shrewdly crafted&"unfair" constitution, against the mandate of the people. Project "Cleanse the Judicary" will be complete by the time the next general elections are held (2019). That I can assure you.

And again, you're completely focusing on the wrong part of the argument here. Are you doing this on purpose?

I don't share your pipe dream sorry. For them to even remotely try and change anything they need 2/3 majority. Good luck with that :D
 
And again, you're completely focusing on the wrong part of the argument here. Are you doing this on purpose?
Wrong that is the only argument in this context. It was before your provided this imperfect example, it continues to be so after you provided you example.

Your reasoning gives the impression that your argument would stand in any other country other than South Africa. Hello, this is 2015. Nothing that wide-ranging would stand. Not in SA, AUS, ZIM, ARG, NIG etc. Forget it.
 
Wrong that is the only argument in this context. It was before your provided this imperfect example, it continues to be so after you provided you example.

Your reasoning gives the impression that your argument would stand in any other country other than South Africa. Hello, this is 2015. Nothing that wide-ranging would stand. Not in SA, AUS, ZIM, ARG, NIG etc. Forget it.

Again, keep on dreaming. You're completely wrong and so is rsa. You two carry on, I'm not going to try and educate you any longer or be trolled by you if that is the case. Good luck.
 
I don't share your pipe dream sorry. For them to even remotely try and change anything they need 2/3 majority. Good luck with that :D
You have got EFF MPs busy spreading rumours that Malema wants to return to the ANC. ANC spokespeople issuing statements that MAlema would be welcome to the ANC. Mama Winnie saying Malema must come back to ANC. Then you go and make a statement like that and call me naive???

Perhaps it's because you witness some violence during SONA?

Be careful what you say. We all know DA-minded parties will never have the capacity to get a third of the votes in South Africa. And for as long as that is fact, always tell yourself that the constitution can be changed in a small matter of 3 months. ;)
 
Project "Cleanse the Judicary" will be complete by the time the next general elections are held (2019). That I can assure you.

Yeah they are well on their way to achieve just that. I am sure by that you mean cleanse the judiciary from all Non ANC aligned lackeys and whiteys. The new judiciary will be for the benefit of the ANC and to protect the criminals in power. Zuma manipulated them well up to now for private gain.

How I rue the fact of supporting your unbanning.

Mama Winnie saying Malema must come back to ANC.

That murderous savage bitch.... The necklace queen!

Shows you what types the ANC and ANC supporters bed with!
 
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