Another Airbus crashes

[racer]

Airbus and Boeing are just as good as each other.

McDonnell Douglas though.... :erm:

Hey, no dissing MD! The DC-10 and MD-11 were the greatest planes ever built and even Boeing's 717 is a renamed MD.
Of course since Boeing took them over, we haven't had any new MDs so the ones still flying now are centuries old, but they're darn good planes.

 

[ponder]

Of course since Boeing took them over, we haven't had any new MDs so the ones still flying now are centuries old, but they're darn good planes.

Yeah, because after every crash they ironed out the bugs, so after all these years they should be up to scratch by now

 

[Rouxenator]

What was good about the MD's are now in the 737 and as far as I am concerned its the only way to fly if you are keen on a slim(er) chance to die.

 

[racer]

What was good about the MD's are now in the 737 and as far as I am concerned its the only way to fly if you are keen on a slim(er) chance to die.

 

[racer]

What was good about the MD's are now in the 737 and as far as I am concerned its the only way to fly if you are keen on a slim(er) chance to die.

agree, but you can't exactly fly a 737 to Europe,, unless you hop a few flights over..

 

[Rouxenator]

Luckily I don't have enough money to go that far and Kulula only has a 737's in their fleet

 

[Kelerei]

Luckily I don't have enough money to go that far and Kulula only has a 737's in their fleet

Problem is that they're flying the older types: B733 and B734 mainly (and a few B732's in BA colours for good measure). At least they're starting with a fleet renewal: they've got 2 (I think!) B738's, with more to come. Besides, SAA's leases on their B738's are about to expire, and SAA seems to have opted to not renew those leases and instead go for the A320/A321 (which makes a lot of sense from a fleet commonality perspective), so CAW could find themselves in a buyer's market for that type. Now we just need RNX to upgrade from their MD80 series craft, and I'll be happy.

I have no complaints about Airbus, except for an irrational hate towards the A342 - probably because I was stuck on one with crappy entertainment on the FAJS-YPPH route.

 

[Palimino]

You honestly can't blame Airbus for this. This is the first A321 to be in a fatal accident. Airbus and Boeing are just as good as each other.

I cringe whenever there is bad Airbus PR. I prefer Airbus to Boeing (underdog), and it keeps Boeing from dominating the market, but Airbus is messing-up. Boeing is far wealthier than Airbus and they [Airbus] have made some seriously bad and expensive decisions IMO (like the A380). I wonder how much longer they can last?

 

[Ockie]

I cringe whenever there is bad Airbus PR. I prefer Airbus to Boeing (underdog), and it keeps Boeing from dominating the market, but Airbus is messing-up. Boeing is far wealthier than Airbus and they [Airbus] have made some seriously bad and expensive decisions IMO (like the A380). I wonder how much longer they can last?

I found the ride in the A340 - 600 to London very comfy..considering how cramped economy is. It was rather boring actually. A little turbulance here or there would have been good to shake things up a little lol

Why do you say the A380 was a mistake? Yes, true it was a moerse expensive undertaking.....but they are making a killing with it. There is a lot of orders for this plane...compared to the 747-8. I would not be surprized if Airbus actually becomes the market leader now in the SuperJumbo class. I would love to fly on a A380 someday. Or climb into those engines and have a peak! Fascinating!

 

[powermzii]

I cringe whenever there is bad Airbus PR. I prefer Airbus to Boeing (underdog), and it keeps Boeing from dominating the market, but Airbus is messing-up. Boeing is far wealthier than Airbus and they [Airbus] have made some seriously bad and expensive decisions IMO (like the A380). I wonder how much longer they can last?

I think the A346 was a bigger mistake than the A388. It (A346) is being kicked out of the water by the 772LR in terms of MTOW and range (A346 burns more fuel over the same route compared to the 777) - thats why most airlines are opting for the 772/772lr and 773 over the A346.

 

[racer]

Now we just need RNX to upgrade from their MD80 series craft, and I'll be happy.

not til i've had at least another 5 rides in them

 

[Kelerei]

I think the A346 was a bigger mistake than the A388. It (A346) is being kicked out of the water by the 772LR in terms of MTOW and range (A346 burns more fuel over the same route compared to the 777) - thats why most airlines are opting for the 772/772lr and 773 over the A346.

... only, the B772LR wasn't around when the A346 was built. That said, A340 sales have been declining ever since Boeing's latest 777 revisions came out; there's a lot of speculation at the moment that the A340 line may be closed in favour of future production expansion of the A350.

The A340, however, fits in well with SAA's operations out of FAJS - due to the hot and high conditions, twins take a massive pounding out of there on take-off, whereas the quads are better equipped. ETOPS is also an important consideration on routes to and from here (although that's becoming less of a problem than it previously was). It's going to be interesting to see what SAA's plans are for the A332s that will be replacing the A342s; those aircraft are far better suited to be operating out of FACT and (dare I say it!) FALE than out of FAJS.

 

[Palimino]

Why do you say the A380 was a mistake?

#1 Many airports don’t have runways long enough.
#2 Financial crisis (affordability).
#3 At the time [of development] the birdflu scare was happening. But the same logic applies – the spread of diseases by huge loads of ‘Typhoid Mary’s’.
#4 Many countries don’t have the need for such massive numbers on a single flight (it’s not economic).
#5 A plane disaster currently strains health systems. With the A380 they would be totally overburdened.
#6 The trend is towards flexibility. Smaller loads, land at all international airports, etc.

And so on. Boeing must have been snickering. Their investment was in a stretched Jumbo and the ‘Dreamliner’. Cheaper costs.

 

[powermzii]

#1 Many airports don’t have runways long enough.
#2 Financial crisis (affordability).

And so on. Boeing must have been snickering. Their investment was in a stretched Jumbo and the ‘Dreamliner’. Cheaper costs.

On point 1 - i dont believe its the length coz that bird takes off off the same sort of run-up as a loaded 774 - i think its more to do with width and the size of the over-wing area as well as clearance between gates for those massive wings

Cost is definitely an issue *upfront* but Airbus have recently added a 0.3% credit to the IAE engines on the Airbus which on longer routes translates to an additional 7T of cargo so as airlines use it more it will surely begin to prove its worth

... only, the B772LR wasn't around when the A346 was built. That said, A340 sales have been declining ever since Boeing's latest 777 revisions came out; there's a lot of speculation at the moment that the A340 line may be closed in favour of future production expansion of the A350.

The A340, however, fits in well with SAA's operations out of FAJS - due to the hot and high conditions, twins take a massive pounding out of there on take-off, whereas the quads are better equipped. ETOPS is also an important consideration on routes to and from here (although that's becoming less of a problem than it previously was). It's going to be interesting to see what SAA's plans are for the A332s that will be replacing the A342s; those aircraft are far better suited to be operating out of FACT and (dare I say it!) FALE than out of FAJS.

Definitely the 350 is looking like a winner for AB - hope it doesn't suffer as many delays as the 787 currently is. Having said that, the 787 is one beautiful bird

SAA has come out and said they would expand their fleet with more ABs, esp 320s and 332s - will save them costs on training which is positive. I think the single aisle market is properly competitive for now with 737s and A320s going head to head with very little between them

Thanks for the correction on the 772LR and A346 and i had overlooked the ETOPS and Hot and High issues that we face out of FAJS

 

[Palimino]

There is a fair amount of speculation as well. Airbus execs should have seen the convergence of technology, fashion and affordability. With the advent of virtual meetings, the need for business to have face-to-face meetings is unnecessary. It’s cheaper for business. There will be huge social pressure not to fly in polluting aircraft for tourists, which is expensive anyway with hotels, living expenses & whatnot (financial crisis). Internet travel software will become more sophisticated (cheaper and you see more). Why risk the discomfort, dangers and expense of international travel when you can experience it from the comfort of your armchair? There will always be tourists for those determined to experience the poverty and diarrhea in person, but not in the same numbers. Smaller a/c are sufficient for the diminished numbers (more landing options as well). The A380 is overkill.

 

[Rouxenator]

SAA are buying A320s cause its the wrong thing to do and they have a strict "do only wrong" policy in place.
Kulula on the other hand has some 737-800s on order which is more acceptable.

 

[ponder]

#5 A plane disaster currently strains health systems. With the A380 they would be totally overburdened.

Huh, how if everyone dies which is usually the outcome?

 

[killadoob]

Huh, how if everyone dies which is usually the outcome?

Hahaha

Every time a plane goes down people freak out like they are dropping out the sky at a massive rate. Considering the amount of air traffic plane crashes are pretty rare. Sadly planes crash and people die. Should we start blaming toyota because people die in them? Must be some design flaw in their cars every time some dies in one.

 

[Palimino]

Huh, how if everyone dies which is usually the outcome?

Not everyone always dies (anyway, think overburdened mortuary services, mass graves, etc.). Here in SA they would just stack the bodies in unrefrigerated buildings and forget about them, so maybe it’s not a problem. Otherwise they can go to our hospitals to be killed, burns infect easily. And they say service is bad in SA.

 

[racer]

if it ain't Boeing, i aint' going...

I have some marketing pics from an airshow 2 years ago that Boeing were giving out.. 787 and 747-8 in SAA colours. Sweet! The main reason I prefer Boeing over Airbus is cause their planes just look better. Dang, that A380 is an ugly beast...