Another career change thread

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Ejeckt

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'lo


I'm very conflicted about how to proceed from here, so was hoping that some of y'all might share your opinions on the matter and give me some outside perspective or advice. I know the post is long, but I'd highly appreciate any input.

My situation:

I'm 27. I completed my BCom Honours in Human Resources 3 years ago and have been working in HR.

Aaaaand I really need to get out. My brain will atrophy and I'll die in my 40's due to lack of mental stimulation or something. I'm so BORED. That's not to say I'm doing badly. Not to brag or anything, but I'm the top consultant at the firm (not that it means much anyway - my salary is tiny - ±10k).

I just got a new job, 6 month contract, (still in HR) with a large engineering company. So I'm leaving the SME consulting environment and trying out the large corporate space. It's basically my last effort to see if I can work the next 37 years in HR.

I never wanted to go into HR. It's only in my Honours year that I realized I didn't want to do Industrial Psych, so HR was the second best thing.

I did a lot of recruitment, and the one blessing was that I got to see what other people are doing & earning. That helped me think of a direction I want to go.

I want to be a software developer (then take it from there). Computers have always been a hobby. I'm the go-to IT guy in the office and I'm self taught in Python and I've dabbled in other web development.

I have a passion for creating stuff (tangible or intangible) and always felt an immense sense of pride for even the tiniest programs & scripts that I've written. I'm far from being able to do it professionally though.

Now, here's the facts:

  • Married, no kids. Wife has independent practice. Probably not enough to support both of us, though
  • Have enough cash savings (short term investments) to cover ±1 year full living expenses if no other income comes in from either of us
  • Parents very supportive and will help with tuition fees
  • I have a part time job at UNISA as a tutor
  • I can come back to present company and work as freelance recruiter on commission basis if I'm studying
  • No debts
  • Aptitude is good enough to succeed at varsity again with a technical degree

Basically, I'm blessed to have the opportunity to study a full time degree again.

I'm trying to decide between BEng (Computer) and BSc (Computer Science) and BSc (Information Technology and Knowledge Systems) from the University of Pretoria. I'm getting old, so that one extra year of BEng is weighing on me.

I have the motivation to do it, that's for sure. No faffing around at Hatfield Square.

If I do go study I wouldn't just take it easy. The plan would be to do as many certifications and training in other technologies like .NET or Java and get involved in as many practical projects or as much experience as possible.

My dilema is that I'm scared. I'm scared to leave my comfort zone, I'm scared to go through 4 years (maybe more for postgrad), I'm scared that I'll be too old and that my BCom Hons won't count for anything.

Think I should go for it? Sit in the same class as the 18 and 19 year olds and start 10 years after them at the bottom?

tl;dr

Im 27, want to (and able to) go study, but worried that starting fresh in new field of IT at age of 30/31 will be too detrimental
 
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Ejeckt said:
'lo


I'm very conflicted about how to proceed from here, so was hoping that some of y'all might share your opinions on the matter and give me some outside perspective or advice. I know the post is long, but I'd highly appreciate any input.

My situation:

I'm 27. I completed my BCom Honours in Human Resources 3 years ago and have been working in HR.

Aaaaand I really need to get out. My brain will atrophy and I'll die in my 40's due to lack of mental stimulation or something. I'm so BORED. That's not to say I'm doing badly. Not to brag or anything, but I'm the top consultant at the firm (not that it means much anyway - my salary is tiny - ±10k).

I just got a new job, 6 month contract, (still in HR) with a large engineering company. So I'm leaving the SME consulting environment and trying out the large corporate space. It's basically my last effort to see if I can work the next 37 years in HR.

I never wanted to go into HR. It's only in my Honours year that I realized I didn't want to do Industrial Psych, so HR was the second best thing.

I did a lot of recruitment, and the one blessing was that I got to see what other people are doing & earning. That helped me think of a direction I want to go.

I want to be a software developer (then take it from there). Computers have always been a hobby. I'm the go-to IT guy in the office and I'm self taught in Python and I've dabbled in other web development.

I have a passion for creating stuff (tangible or intangible) and always felt an immense sense of pride for even the tiniest programs & scripts that I've written. I'm far from being able to do it professionally though.

Now, here's the facts:

  • Married, no kids. Wife has independent practice. Probably not enough to support both of us, though
  • Have enough cash savings (short term investments) to cover ±1 year full living expenses if no other income comes in from either of us
  • Parents very supportive and will help with tuition fees
  • I have a part time job at UNISA as a tutor
  • I can come back to present company and work as freelance recruiter on commission basis if I'm studying
  • No debts
  • Aptitude is good enough to succeed at varsity again with a technical degree

Basically, I'm blessed to have the opportunity to study a full time degree again.

I'm trying to decide between BEng (Computer) and BSc (Computer Science) and BSc (Information Technology and Knowledge Systems) from the University of Pretoria. I'm getting old, so that one extra year of BEng is weighing on me.

I have the motivation to do it, that's for sure. No faffing around at Hatfield Square.

If I do go study I wouldn't just take it easy. The plan would be to do as many certifications and training in other technologies like .NET or Java and get involved in as many practical projects or as much experience as possible.

My dilema is that I'm scared. I'm scared to leave my comfort zone, I'm scared to go through 4 years (maybe more for postgrad), I'm scared that I'll be too old and that my BCom Hons won't count for anything.

Think I should go for it? Sit in the same class as the 18 and 19 year olds and start 10 years after them at the bottom?

tl;dr

Im 27, want to (and able to) go study, but worried that starting fresh in new field of IT at age of 30/31 will be too detrimental
Click to expand...

I'd go BSc ComSci.
If development is your calling, that's a good grounding
 
Well, Im no expert, but I think that the logical thing to do is to do a Java, .Net or Sharepoint course. This will get you into a dev job. And after that, after you have the Dev job, i would recommend BSc (Information Technology and Knowledge Systems (preferably)) or BEng (Computer).

Those short courses can be done part time, im not sure, I haven't done those, but it's something that you can do while you are working.
 
Im 27, want to (and able to) go study, but worried that starting fresh in new field of IT at age of 30/31 will be too detrimental
Click to expand...

That should not be a problem, if you're passionate, have the skills , aptitude and a degree, you will be snapped up quickly. I got into programming at 28, been doing it (and enjoying it) for 13 years.
 
Ejeckt said:
'lo


I'm very conflicted about how to proceed from here, so was hoping that some of y'all might share your opinions on the matter and give me some outside perspective or advice. I know the post is long, but I'd highly appreciate any input.

My situation:

I'm 27. I completed my BCom Honours in Human Resources 3 years ago and have been working in HR.

Aaaaand I really need to get out. My brain will atrophy and I'll die in my 40's due to lack of mental stimulation or something. I'm so BORED. That's not to say I'm doing badly. Not to brag or anything, but I'm the top consultant at the firm (not that it means much anyway - my salary is tiny - ±10k).

I just got a new job, 6 month contract, (still in HR) with a large engineering company. So I'm leaving the SME consulting environment and trying out the large corporate space. It's basically my last effort to see if I can work the next 37 years in HR.

I never wanted to go into HR. It's only in my Honours year that I realized I didn't want to do Industrial Psych, so HR was the second best thing.

I did a lot of recruitment, and the one blessing was that I got to see what other people are doing & earning. That helped me think of a direction I want to go.

I want to be a software developer (then take it from there). Computers have always been a hobby. I'm the go-to IT guy in the office and I'm self taught in Python and I've dabbled in other web development.

I have a passion for creating stuff (tangible or intangible) and always felt an immense sense of pride for even the tiniest programs & scripts that I've written. I'm far from being able to do it professionally though.

Now, here's the facts:

  • Married, no kids. Wife has independent practice. Probably not enough to support both of us, though
  • Have enough cash savings (short term investments) to cover ±1 year full living expenses if no other income comes in from either of us
  • Parents very supportive and will help with tuition fees
  • I have a part time job at UNISA as a tutor
  • I can come back to present company and work as freelance recruiter on commission basis if I'm studying
  • No debts
  • Aptitude is good enough to succeed at varsity again with a technical degree

Basically, I'm blessed to have the opportunity to study a full time degree again.

I'm trying to decide between BEng (Computer) and BSc (Computer Science) and BSc (Information Technology and Knowledge Systems) from the University of Pretoria. I'm getting old, so that one extra year of BEng is weighing on me.

I have the motivation to do it, that's for sure. No faffing around at Hatfield Square.

If I do go study I wouldn't just take it easy. The plan would be to do as many certifications and training in other technologies like .NET or Java and get involved in as many practical projects or as much experience as possible.

My dilema is that I'm scared. I'm scared to leave my comfort zone, I'm scared to go through 4 years (maybe more for postgrad), I'm scared that I'll be too old and that my BCom Hons won't count for anything.

Think I should go for it? Sit in the same class as the 18 and 19 year olds and start 10 years after them at the bottom?

tl;dr

Im 27, want to (and able to) go study, but worried that starting fresh in new field of IT at age of 30/31 will be too detrimental
Click to expand...

I always support someone who wants to study further:) Point to consider:

1.) BEng Computer from Tuks is freaking bliksem difficult and in my opinion not worth it. It's more of a Telecommunication degree. you major in Digital Telecommunications so the degree name is very misleading.

2.) What I've seen in SA is that it doesn't really matter what degree you have because eventually the degree is just a stepping stone. You could try do those .NET courses or other from Torque since you already have a degree and see where that gets you?

I wish you all the best and also, I wish I had your courage to change my career :D
 
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For development, you want something with Software Engineering. Because languages are just syntax, the main focus should be on concepts and methadologies of putting together solutions. This also gives you a hand when moving up to designer and management level, as you understand what goes into designing and developing systems and applications.
 
Thanks all for responses.

For development, you want something with Software Engineering. Because languages are just syntax, the main focus should be on concepts and methadologies of putting together solutions. This also gives you a hand when moving up to designer and management level, as you understand what goes into designing and developing systems and applications.
Click to expand...

Are you referring to a specific qualification or course? All the degrees I've looked at have Software Engineering in the third year.

Well, Im no expert, but I think that the logical thing to do is to do a Java, .Net or Sharepoint course. This will get you into a dev job. And after that, after you have the Dev job, i would recommend BSc (Information Technology and Knowledge Systems (preferably)) or BEng (Computer).

Those short courses can be done part time, im not sure, I haven't done those, but it's something that you can do while you are working.
Click to expand...

I thought about that too. But I think I have a short window within which I can still do a full time degree. I respect people that can do something part-time, but a UNISA degree really doesn't carry as much weight as a Tuks one. I've seen it time and time again with my clients. Candidate's with UNISA or Limpopo/Venda degrees aren't even shortlisted if there is a fair number of candidates with tertiary qualifications from other universities.

I'd go BSc ComSci.
If development is your calling, that's a good grounding
Click to expand...

Any particular advantage that you know of, that it has over BSc IT
 
You should be looking for courses offering system and database design from first year, in conjunction with various languages and implementation strategies. Preferably also a bit of operating systems and networking aswell, as these help with multi-platform development and deployemtn of solutions over various kinds of networking infrastructure. This will also help with mobile development, which is a big plus.
 
Ejeckt said:
Im 27, want to (and able to) go study, but worried that starting fresh in new field of IT at age of 30/31 will be too detrimental
Click to expand...

Well, this was some years ago, by my mom changed from Career Guidance to Software Development when she was in her forties. She was also bored with her job and so decided to do her own tests on herself and based on that changed careers. (She effectively learned to program after I did. :) ) She retired as a senior developer in a well paid job.
 
Ejeckt said:
I thought about that too. But I think I have a short window within which I can still do a full time degree. I respect people that can do something part-time, but a UNISA degree really doesn't carry as much weight as a Tuks one. I've seen it time and time again with my clients. Candidate's with UNISA or Limpopo/Venda degrees aren't even shortlisted if there is a fair number of candidates with tertiary qualifications from other universities.
Click to expand...

In my experience BSc degrees in Computer Science at Unisa are rated the same or higher in many cases, because it takes significantly more perseverance to complete. And the same material is covered from the same text books etc.
 
Glingfram said:
You should be looking for courses offering system and database design from first year, in conjunction with various languages and implementation strategies. Preferably also a bit of operating systems and networking aswell, as these help with multi-platform development and deployemtn of solutions over various kinds of networking infrastructure. This will also help with mobile development, which is a big plus.
Click to expand...

Hmm... great advice. Gonna try find something like that, but the closest I can see is one of the UNISA BSc's, but it's no longer offered.
 
Ejeckt said:
I'm trying to decide between BEng (Computer) and BSc (Computer Science) and BSc (Information Technology and Knowledge Systems) from the University of Pretoria. I'm getting old, so that one extra year of BEng is weighing on me.
o do it, that's for sure. No faffing around at Hatfield Square.

If I do go study I wouldn't just take it easy. The plan would be to do as many certifications and training in other technologies like .NET or Java and get involved in as many practical projects or as much experience as possible.

My dilema is that I'm scared. I'm scared to leave my comfort zone, I'm scared to go through 4 years (maybe more for postgrad), I'm scared that I'll be too old and that my BCom Hons won't count for anything.

Think I should go for it? Sit in the same class as the 18 and 19 year olds and start 10 years after them at the bottom?

tl;dr

Im 27, want to (and able to) go study, but worried that starting fresh in new field of IT at age of 30/31 will be too detrimental
Click to expand...

On the technical/academic side, I would suggest CS, since it sounds as though that would be more interesting for you. The slightly "softer" IT/IS/KS course will likely be less beneficial for someone who is already older (read: "experienced" - even in unrelated fields). If BEng is really appealing, you should go for it, but if you're on the fence, the answer is that you shouldn probably avoid it.

About the "life" bits: Some perspective is that 3 years is approximate 8% of the rest of your career (furthermore, you may find that people work far beyond the age of 64, 37 years from now). As an HR guy, with recruitment experience, you already know that you will be earning 2-3x what you are earning now, right out the door. You loose out on 360k of income over 3 years, pay ~R60k (I think) in fees over these years, but you will make it up before 5 years from now are up. Eventually, you will hopefully be earning 3-5x of what you were earning before. Over the last 30 years of your career, you will dwarf the earnings of your current job. More perspective, is that these 3 years aren't non-years. You learn, you socialize, you network, etc. all very relevant to your career.

Don't worry about being "older" at university (27 puts at younger than most PhDs). When I was at UCT, there were plenty of people way older (late 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, etc). Sure, you will encounter some mouth breathers, but I would be surprised if it becomes generally uncomfortable.

After all of this, when you start your career anew at 30 (or possibly contracting part time before then?), you will find that a combination of age, your additional degree, your work experience, etc. (i.e., your overall level of maturity), will likely start you at a better position than your 22 year old fellow grads, and that you will progress quicker too. Plus, with your recruiter background and HR contacts you should be able to ace the soft skills part of the interview, have an edge in locating your first job, and also be able to negotiate effectively.

Really, the only thing that could blow up in your face, is that you find that you hate or suck at software development. In my experience, anyone who is sufficiently interested or motivated can excel here. The degree process is just a catalyst.
 
cguy said:
On the technical/academic side, I would suggest CS, since it sounds as though that would be more interesting for you. The slightly "softer" IT/IS/KS course will likely be less beneficial for someone who is already older (read: "experienced" - even in unrelated fields). If BEng is really appealing, you should go for it, but if you're on the fence, the answer is that you shouldn probably avoid it.

About the "life" bits: Some perspective is that 3 years is approximate 8% of the rest of your career (furthermore, you may find that people work far beyond the age of 64, 37 years from now). As an HR guy, with recruitment experience, you already know that you will be earning 2-3x what you are earning now, right out the door. You loose out on 360k of income over 3 years, pay ~R60k (I think) in fees over these years, but you will make it up before 5 years from now are up. Eventually, you will hopefully be earning 3-5x of what you were earning before. Over the last 30 years of your career, you will dwarf the earnings of your current job. More perspective, is that these 3 years aren't non-years. You learn, you socialize, you network, etc. all very relevant to your career.

Don't worry about being "older" at university (27 puts at younger than most PhDs). When I was at UCT, there were plenty of people way older (late 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, etc). Sure, you will encounter some mouth breathers, but I would be surprised if it becomes generally uncomfortable.

After all of this, when you start your career anew at 30 (or possibly contracting part time before then?), you will find that a combination of age, your additional degree, your work experience, etc. (i.e., your overall level of maturity), will likely start you at a better position than your 22 year old fellow grads, and that you will progress quicker too. Plus, with your recruiter background and HR contacts you should be able to ace the soft skills part of the interview, have an edge in locating your first job, and also be able to negotiate effectively.

Really, the only thing that could blow up in your face, is that you find that you hate or suck at software development. In my experience, anyone who is sufficiently interested or motivated can excel here. The degree process is just a catalyst.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the perspective. That makes me feel much more positive, just what I needed to hear. :)
 
there is a podcast called thisdeveloperslife by hanselman and conery. episode 2.0.3 is education, please give it a listen.

if you have a degree and really want another one then go for it. but since you already have one id rather just get a cert or something and do one or two short courses.

start reading and writing code. as much as you can. scour github for as many interesting projects as you can find.

buy a subscription to tekpub or something similar and start watching vids about current day tech. i learnt more in a video series than 3 years of comp sci.

write code and put it up somewhere like a blog or something. write lots and write often. more companies are interested in code you've done than paper you've earned.
 
sp4ceman said:
there is a podcast called thisdeveloperslife by hanselman and conery. episode 2.0.3 is education, please give it a listen.

if you have a degree and really want another one then go for it. but since you already have one id rather just get a cert or something and do one or two short courses.

start reading and writing code. as much as you can. scour github for as many interesting projects as you can find.

buy a subscription to tekpub or something similar and start watching vids about current day tech. i learnt more in a video series than 3 years of comp sci.

write code and put it up somewhere like a blog or something. write lots and write often. more companies are interested in code you've done than paper you've earned.
Click to expand...

That sounds like very solid advice. I just listened to the podcast and found it very insightful. I know the degree isn't absolutely essential - having worked in recruitment I have personal experience iwth that - but I want to just learn as much as I can.

The plan would be to get the degree & certs. Not sure if it's overkill, but because I'm starting a bit later I'm trying to find the most efficient solution. I'm gonna go all out and I want to get the most out of the next 3-4 years and I'm willing to work as hard as I have to. So the plan is degree + certs/short courses + code as much as possible & get as much practical experience + engross myself fully in the industry
 
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You mentioned that you like creating which prob means you already naturally creative. Can you draw? Sketch etc, have you also thought of tapping into the graphic design field. Maybe just sitting and programming might also get you some boredom. I also thing learn Xcode - Apple platform as you will have fun creating iPad apps etc - there's a growing need for that in SA.
 
Shardie said:
You mentioned that you like creating which prob means you already naturally creative. Can you draw? Sketch etc, have you also thought of tapping into the graphic design field. Maybe just sitting and programming might also get you some boredom. I also thing learn Xcode - Apple platform as you will have fun creating iPad apps etc - there's a growing need for that in SA.
Click to expand...

There are some very good IOS courses through iTunesU. I recommend the Stanford Uni ones. Search for "IOS Stanford" or with the course code "CS 193P". The lecturer is Paul Hegarty. He worked with Steve Jobs at NeXT where he was responsible for the development of NeXT's operating system called OPENSTEP, which became the basis for OSX. The classes from the Cocoa dev environment in Objective C start with "NS", which came from NeXT.
 
Study computer science.

Engineering won't cover the principles and you'll step into your job as someone who isn't on the same level as computer science graduates.
 
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