Anti-competitive behaviour?

WireFree

WireFree

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Hi,

There are a number of VoIP providers on this forum. I would like to get your opinion on the following statement in the Unlimited Voice Calls package from 8ta: "Numbers such as those used by VoIP providers are excluded as well."

Does this mean calls will not be allowed to South Africa's smaller operators? Is this anti-competitive?

WireFree
 
Telkom’s consumer mobile arm also won’t allow international bypass. Numbers such as those used by VoIP providers are excluded as well.

Maharaj said that they are not excluded for any malicious reason, but opted to work with the larger operators with well-documented interconnect regimes.
Click to expand...

Pretty much self explanatory
 
I am a bit confused here.

Does this mean the rate is excluded from the package when calling an international bypass or a smaller VoIP i.e. 087 number. Or will the call simply not connect on these "less-documented interconnect regimes"?
 
Maybe this will help http://www.8ta.com/news/detail/8ta-launches-sas-first-unlimited-voice-promotion

Besides that the main point is, its an unlimited plan, for too long we have been screwed by the operators with expensive call rates, my current cell bill far exceeds the sim only version price and I mostly phone other cellphones.

Now lets hope the other providers follow suit, maybe one day the packages can be a compared to the flat rate packages available in the rest of the world
 
WireFree said:
Hi,

There are a number of VoIP providers on this forum. I would like to get your opinion on the following statement in the Unlimited Voice Calls package from 8ta: "Numbers such as those used by VoIP providers are excluded as well."

Does this mean calls will not be allowed to South Africa's smaller operators? Is this anti-competitive?

WireFree
Click to expand...

No it does not mean that calls will not be allowed to smaller operators. It means that you will be charged for the call. That is pretty clear:

Mobile calls to mobile networks and fixed line networks (8ta, Vodacom, MTN, Cell C, Telkom and Neotel): N/A
Other networks: R1.50

It is also not anti-competitive in anyway, in fact it is probably one of the most aggressive moves to have happened in the last while that will make their competitors take note and create similar packages which will in turn cause the prices of these packages to be lowered.
 
It would be anti-competitive if Telkom acted in bad faith to the exclusion of smaller operators or if it could be shown that they are working in a cartel with the big boys. IIRC the interconnect rates actually run in favour of the small guys - so Telkom pays more to interconnect per minute to a VoIP provider than to Vodacom or MTN.

I suspect that if a VoIP operator were to present a "well documented" interconnect plan which included waiving any interconnection difference and Telkom refused to negotiate their inclusion a case for contravening some or another provision could be made. But for now it certainly isn't anti-competitive and is justified.
 
The misinformation and confusion in Paul Hjul's reposnse is absolute proof of just anti-competitive this move is and how they're easily the public can be mislead by their lies:

FACT: There is no regulatory concept of a "VoIP Provider"; in terms of SA Call Terminations Regulations, there is only fixed and mobile and VoIP providers are deemed to be fixed.
FACT: The termination rates that VoIP providers charge are no higher than the fixed rate (i.e. what Telkom charges) plus a 15% asymmetry benefit (which reduces to 10% on 1 March 2013).
FACT: The fixed termination rates (what VoIP providers charge) are a fraction (less than one third) of what the mobile operators charge.
FACT: 8.ta (Telkom) have the same 15% asymettry benefit (albeit against the higher mobile termination fee) as VoIP operators on the basis that they are a new entrant within the mobile space (despite Telkom being anything but a new entrant to the telecomms space as a whole).
FACT: All licensed operators (new, old, VoIP, Mobile, etc) have "well documented" interconnect plans; the interconnection regulations (along with call termination regulations) demand that each and every interconnect agreement address a number of issues (which is why these agreements are anywhere from 50 to 200 pages in length) and that each and every interconnect agreement by lodged with ICASA, vetted by ICASA (to ensure that they meet the requirements of the regulations) and approved.

Telkom is being extremely anti-competitive here and it is shocking that people are falling for the lies and nonsense they're spewing in their 'justification'. Paul's response demonstrates just how easily peole can be misled.
 
Why do I suspect gmza didn't read my post and is involved with a VoIP who isn't bothered to present its case for inclusion and to go with the second leg of my post.
 
The fact is 8ta/Telkom by excluding VOIP operators from the unlimited and their existing other promotions (the 1 second for every 3 seconds promotions also doesn't apply to VOIP operators even though they advertise it as being free calls to all SA networks) are being anti-competitive.

There is no difference in the eyes of the consumer between a Fixed line call or VOIP call.

I believe that 8ta by alienating VOIP termination, are trying to establish a perception in the consumers eyes that VOIP is inferrior by ensuring that it costs more, this is the defintion of being anti-competitive.
 
warwickw said:
I believe that 8ta by alienating VOIP termination, are trying to establish a perception in the consumers eyes that VOIP is inferrior by ensuring that it costs more, this is the defintion of being anti-competitive.
Click to expand...
That is a valid argument to run with a great deal of force if you add things up. I don't think 8ta though is alone in doing this at all.
 
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