Any Q's for PS3?

[GavinMannion]

I'd really like to hear how anyone can defend HD DVD against Blu-ray. The data transfer rate alone is almost double.

HD is cheaper to manufacture than Blu-Ray
Sony are making the same mistakes with Blu-Ray that they did with Betamax. They have already banned porn on the Blu-Ray. Like it or hate it porn is big business and if they go with HD-DVD that is a major winner for them. I also don't agree with Sony trying to press their morals onto me.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/trainingday.html#Section7

Whatever its merits as a film, 'Training Day' has made history by becoming one of the first titles to be released on both the Blu-ray and HD DVD formats. In our first head-to-head comparison, we found the HD DVD to be superior, but only slightly.

As far as I know the transfer rate is actually faster on the HD-DVD but the Blu-Ray holds more data.

I think Blu-Ray is better technology but the costs and difficulties of creating the discs along with Sony's strange desire to control our morals might kill the format.... Either way I am not buying either until a winner has been declared.

The PS3 will suffer terribly if HD-DVD wins though, the Xbox however will not. If Blu-Ray wins we will be able to purchase a Blu-Ray addon for the Xbox if required. I don't like having untested technology forced on me ala Sony Style.

 

[curiouswanderer]

Data rate and storage size r not the necessary features that say a format will win. The most important point is the cost of producing the technology. Currently HD-DVD units (not talking about PS3 or XBOX 360 here) are cheaper and much easier/cheaper to produce. I'm not biased to any format but looking them in practicality terms, HD-DVD looks good atm though it is slower and stores less.

I've seen HD-DVD movies before and I must say it looks amazing...almost unbelievably sharp. At the time I saw HD-DVD, Blu-Ray had nothing to show for itself.

 

[MrDickens]

Agreed on the pricing angle, but with the way pricing drops for this sort of technology, I don't think it's going to matter really. I'd like to see the games PS brings out on Blu-ray in say 2 years time. I think they will kick ass.

As to that unbelievably sharp. I agree. My eyes almost hurt watching Ultraviolet on Blu-ray. You can see individual pores on people's skin. Your eyes almost don't know where to look cos the detail is so sharp and clear. Amazing stuff. I'm not bothered about which format will win, but to me the speed and capacity of Blu-ray offer more possibilities for game and movies.

 

[MrDickens]

HD is cheaper to manufacture than Blu-Ray
Sony are making the same mistakes with Blu-Ray that they did with Betamax. They have already banned porn on the Blu-Ray. Like it or hate it porn is big business and if they go with HD-DVD that is a major winner for them. I also don't agree with Sony trying to press their morals onto me.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/trainingday.html#Section7


As far as I know the transfer rate is actually faster on the HD-DVD but the Blu-Ray holds more data.

I think Blu-Ray is better technology but the costs and difficulties of creating the discs along with Sony's strange desire to control our morals might kill the format.... Either way I am not buying either until a winner has been declared.

The PS3 will suffer terribly if HD-DVD wins though, the Xbox however will not. If Blu-Ray wins we will be able to purchase a Blu-Ray addon for the Xbox if required. I don't like having untested technology forced on me ala Sony Style.

Excellent points.

And WTF? No p0rn on Blu-ray? That's just dof. The Intarweb was built on p0rn. It is one of the most cutting edge industries in the world.

 

[GavinMannion]

Agreed on the pricing angle, but with the way pricing drops for this sort of technology, I don't think it's going to matter really. I'd like to see the games PS brings out on Blu-ray in say 2 years time. I think they will kick ass.

Ah but the developers are having major problems with the read speeds of the Blu-ray drive. They are now duplicating content on the discs to try and up the read speed and to avoid scanning to much.

They also cannot compress their data as the scan/read speed is so much slower on the Blu-Ray.

All these problems will be solved but not anytime soon and then the early adopters of the PS3 will suffer.

Personally I think they jumped the gun pushing the PS3 launch back to put in some untested technology. I am quite happy being forced to change DVD's half way through the game, it's not a disaster and at least I have trusted technology in the box...

I am sure the next xbox (5-7 years?) will have either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD in it depending no who wins but for now I think it was a suicidal move from Sony.

 

[ziglet]

LoL, who lied to you saying spec wise it beats xbox 360 hands down.

*Strokes his flashed xbox 360*

I think Sony really made a f-up this time round and microsoft has come out tops.

Ha

 

[BCO]

My eyes almost hurt watching Ultraviolet on Blu-ray.

My eyes ****ing hurt watching that piece of **** on a normal DVD. Worst movie ever. Watching Ultraviolet on Blu Ray would make my eyes bleed. **** that ****.

On topic: I think that while the PS3 may get the upper hand in 2-3 years' time. It will be too late by then. The 360 has a 10 million (and counting) unit lead at the moment. I capitulated and got a 360 and am loving it. Can't see why I'd buy a PS3 now.

Also, /raises hand as an HDTV ready owner.

 

[MrDickens]

My eyes ****ing hurt watching that piece of **** on a normal DVD. Worst movie ever. Watching Ultraviolet on Blu Ray would make my eyes bleed. **** that ****.

On topic: I think that while the PS3 may get the upper hand in 2-3 years' time. It will be too late by then. The 360 has a 10 million (and counting) unit lead at the moment. I capitulated and got a 360 and am loving it. Can't see why I'd buy a PS3 now.

Also, /raises hand as an HDTV ready owner.

I haven't seent he movie, just snippets. And I'm not going to see the whole thing hehehe

I totally agree that Xbox will be way ahead of PS3 for years to come.

And dammit, the pros and cons are making my head sore.

 

[doobiwan]

Hey Mr D, thanks for reporting back. MS were just as evasive before the 360 launch, so oh well.

In regards to the following sentiment:

I must say though that the games and graphics are still playing catch up and have yet to reach the level of Gears of War for example. But that by no way means the hardware isn't capable of achieving that and passing it relatively easily.
...
It all boils down to pricing at the end of the day, and you get what you pay for.

I'd just like to respond. I recently changed camps myself and I'd like to explain why:

As a propellorhead, firstly let me refer you to a detailed technical investigation on the merits of the two systems:
http://dpad.gotfrag.com/portal/story/35372/?spage=1
EDIT: came across another one as well: http://www.itvidya.com/playstation_3_vs_xbox_360

The short version of which is - Sony messed up, the 360, power wise is a superior, more efficient and elegant design.

While the PS3 has lots of big numbers it's like comparing a Mustang to a Ferrari. One can boast that it's got a 5 litre engine, a super charger, 20inch rims and makes more noise than boeing on Take off; the meek and meagre "only 3.6 litre" Two seater Ferrari will spank the pants off the mustang in almost every regard, because it's a better design and build.

EPIC - makers of GoW have themselves stated Gears isn't possible on the PS3 because it doesn't have enough RAM. Team Ninja - currently developing Ninja Gaiden Sigma for the PS3 have also said that trying to get the PS3 to do more than 720p is pointless, where the 360 will be running Forza 2 and Halo 3 in full 1080p.

Lets also look at content - There are more AAA titles (Exclusives and non) heading to the 360 than the PS3 at the moment, and all cross platform titles swing in favour of the 360 anyway. (See previous gamespot link) Currently the only "system sellers" exclusive to the PS3 are GT5, MGS4 and FF13. The 360's list in comparison runs into over a dozen.
Here's just one link for today (not all exclusives): http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/757/757362p1.html


On the "Blu-Ray" issue. Don't mistake "Blu-Ray" for Hi-def. It's a mistake Sony is hoping you'll make, but as a mass market journalist I implore you not too! BR is only one way of getting stunning HD visuals. HD-DVD is another, but the 360 looks past that. While not available here yet, the 360 offers Hi def movie downloads direct to the harddrive - no trolling through shops no waiting for orders - download and go. While not availabe here yet, it will be, and the movies cost a lot less than BR discs!

In addition Microsoft just announced 360 IPTV support, which means good bye DSTV! Hello integrated DVR. Telkom has already admitted they will be supporting it!

Basically Sony has a hypeable product, Microsoft has gone for an elegant integrated well thought out long term plan. I haven't even started on the 360, "Home Server" and "Live Anywhere" yet. (Home server rocks!)

My 2c's, use it, dont use it . . .
</rant>

 

[arf9999]

Can you give some sources? Because most of what you've written sounds like Microsoft FUD or rumours.

Ah but the developers are having major problems with the read speeds of the Blu-ray drive. They are now duplicating content on the discs to try and up the read speed and to avoid scanning to much.

What developers?
Fact: Transfer rate of Blu-Ray is almost 50% faster than HD-DVD.

They also cannot compress their data as the scan/read speed is so much slower on the Blu-Ray.

Meaningless and illogical statement. If the read speed is slower, more compression is better, not worse.

All these problems will be solved but not anytime soon and then the early adopters of the PS3 will suffer.

Care to share some sources for these problems?

 

[GavinMannion]

Can you give some sources? Because most of what you've written sounds like Microsoft FUD or rumours.
What developers?
Fact: Transfer rate of Blu-Ray is almost 50% faster than HD-DVD.

That may be a fact, BUT Blu-Ray is still slower than DVD, Xbox games are on DVD and not HD-DVD for this reason and many other.

http://www.gwn.com/news/story.php/id/11006/title/Oblivion_Developer_Blu-ray_Is_Slower.html

The developer would be Bethesda (Oblivion)

Meaningless and illogical statement. If the read speed is slower, more compression is better, not worse.

Typical I can't find the information... The idea was that they needed to use uncompressed data since it read so slow and the RAM on the PS3 is sadly lacking so they couldn't uncompress in a decent time....

Care to share some sources for these problems?

1 out of 2

 

[Fudzy]

Regardless of the HD format, surely the read speed of normal DVDs wont be affected whether its in a blu-ray or HD-DVD drive?

 

[doobiwan]

?!?

Uh, I think we all need some coffee

The read speed of the disc won't effect the playback of HD video content, so the transfer rate between HD-DVD and BR for video is a moot point.

When comparing load times for games, you have to compare BR to Standard DVD, as that's what the 360 uses.

 

[MrDickens]

And round and round it goes

Keep talking guys... I'm busy writing up a Blu-ray vs HD DVD article right now... featuring the LG BH100 dual player. Dunno if I can go into as much detail as

I reckon I'm going to have to just shrug and say there's too much debate. Are there any definitive urls I could rather quote as being the place to go to get the best info?

 

[Fudzy]

And round and round it goes

Keep talking guys... I'm busy writing up a Blu-ray vs HD DVD article right now... featuring the LG BH100 dual player. Dunno if I can go into as much detail as

I reckon I'm going to have to just shrug and say there's too much debate. Are there any definitive urls I could rather quote as being the place to go to get the best info?

You got one of those LG dual players?

 

[MrDickens]

Nope not yet... still coming.

 

[arf9999]

That may be a fact, BUT Blu-Ray is still slower than DVD, Xbox games are on DVD and not HD-DVD for this reason and many other.

http://www.gwn.com/news/story.php/id/11006/title/Oblivion_Developer_Blu-ray_Is_Slower.html

aaaah, you mean access time. Different thing entirely, and this relates to load time in certain random access applications - not throughput or data transfer. This "problem" relates to *getting to the data on the disk* rather than the speed at which it transfers the data. I understand one of your points now. You're comparing access time on DVD to that on Blu-ray. I don't know if this is a huge issue... I spose the game developers will know best.

Typical I can't find the information... The idea was that they needed to use uncompressed data since it read so slow and the RAM on the PS3 is sadly lacking so they couldn't uncompress in a decent time....

I don't agree with your point here tho', it sounds like nonsense. The throughput on Blu-Ray is huge, so compression is a non issue, and in addition, the processing power of the PS3 (for all its faults) is massive and really suited to tasks like decompression in real time (without a big ram cache).

 

[doobiwan]

What specifically are you looking for? I've given you the best gaming comparison links (gotfrag being the most thorough)

If you're looking for a HD-DVD versus BR comp, try here: http://www.highdefdigest.com/feature_blurayvshddvd_firstcomparison.html

If you're looking specifically at Hi-def home movies, honestly the difference will come down to price and availability, once again technically - BR and HD-DVD support the exact same encoding formats (mpeg2, vc-1 & h.264), all of which compress the movies so much they can actually fit on a standard DVD (The Chinese are doing something like this and releasing EVD? I think next year)

So basically the quality of the movie does not depend so much on the disc format as the player. Price wise, HD-DVD is undoubtedly cheaper - $500 for a player oppossed to $1000 for BR, or $500 for the PS3 (or +$200 for the 360 HD-DVD add-on). There are more movies available for HD-DVD, but BR has a few more exclusive studios lined up currently. But HD-DVD has Lord of the Rings already, and lets not forget the Porn industry backs HD-DVD . . .

As a consumer we shouldn't care. I would not buy an HD optical player unless it supports both, or there is a clear winner. Personally, I'm looking forward to having a Windows home server with all my downloaded HD content stored digitally and accessible from any device I own whether it be My Xbox, PC or portable player, safe from my toddlers over enthusiastic attempts to remove discs from their cases . . .