Any Sigma shooters out there?

[koffiejunkie]

I mean, as in Sigma DSLR shooters?

The SD1's price was just announced, and, let's just say it's a bit rich for my blood...



Anyway, I'm just curious to know if anyone here shoots Sigma and what made you choose Sigma?

 

[Dolby]

I didn't even know Sigma made cameras

 

[koffiejunkie]

They do indeed. I just don't know anyone how shoots with one. Or any shop that carries them.

 

[GTi]

I've only seen it on Youtude when they promote their lenses but never seen an actual Sigma camera.

 

[BigAl-sa]

Dunno whether their newer cameras have it, but I'm hugely interested in the foveon technology - has to be better than the bayer filter.

[lots of googling for everyone ]

 

[koffiejunkie]

Dunno whether their newer cameras have it, but I'm hugely interested in the foveon technology - has to be better than the bayer filter.

From what I've read, that was true 10-5 years ago when CCDs ruled the roost, and and the colour accuracy argument has merit, but in practise CMOS sensors have developed to the point where the Foveon argument is getting hard to argue. Here's one argument explaining some of it.

I think it's interesting, and I'm open to being shown how superior it is, but I've spent a great deal of time staring at files from SD14 and SD15 cameras, and I fail to see how it's any better.

 

[James]

Not answering your question but read this on the syndication a few days ago, puts the price tag into perspective when you do look at the competitors.

Sigma knows that $9,700 is a lot of money to pay for, well, anything, so it's couching the hefty price tag on its new flagship DSLR, the SD1, in the context of it competing against medium format digital cameras -- whose prices don't generally fall below five figures. Trouble is, as professionally inclined, well designed, and durably built as the SD1 may be, it still only packs a 15.3 megapixel CMOS sensor that spans 24mm x 16mm (or APS-C size). That means it'll have to earn its stripes on the battlefield of image quality, which it'll be ready to march onto in less than a month's time. Sigma promises to start shipping units in early June, so if you have the cash to spare (plus a little extra to fund a suitably awesome lens), you can start building up your anticipation today.

 

[koffiejunkie]

Yeah, I've read that too, but I've heard that all before. Before the SD14 and SD15 came out, there was the same hype.

 

[BigAl-sa]

From what I've read, that was true 10-5 years ago when CCDs ruled the roost, and and the colour accuracy argument has merit, but in practise CMOS sensors have developed to the point where the Foveon argument is getting hard to argue. Here's one argument explaining some of it.

I think it's interesting, and I'm open to being shown how superior it is, but I've spent a great deal of time staring at files from SD14 and SD15 cameras, and I fail to see how it's any better.

With foveon, you're getting the colours (and gradations of the colours) directly off the sensor. The output from CMOS & CCD sensors is black and white and has to be converted to colour through the Bayer filter. Each sensor has a different Bayer filter, which must make the interpretation of the colours very difficult (the reason why RAW interpreters have to be updated with each new sensor).

 

[koffiejunkie]

That's true, but from what I understand, and also suggested in the post I linked to, it still has accuracy problems.

I think what it comes down to is that Foveon may be a better design, or at least a more promising design on paper. But as we know implementation is everything, and a lot more money is going into making CMOS sensors better than Sigma can possibly spend on their low volume sensor. So weather the sensor actually gives better results (and weather the camera can make the most of it) remains to be seen.

 

[ponder]

Dunno about Foveon although the images did look good years ago I still prefer the output from the Fujifilm sensors used in their DSLR cameras but then again it's not a very versatile camera.

 

[ldmelsa]

That's true, but from what I understand, and also suggested in the post I linked to, it still has accuracy problems.

I think what it comes down to is that Foveon may be a better design, or at least a more promising design on paper. But as we know implementation is everything, and a lot more money is going into making CMOS sensors better than Sigma can possibly spend on their low volume sensor. So weather the sensor actually gives better results (and weather the camera can make the most of it) remains to be seen.

Yeah, that's the thing. Canon & Nikon have a long history of making cameras. They know how to make cameras that have great functionality. It's not that Foveon is bad, it's just the implementation - like you said. I think I'll place my bets with the Japanese giants, Canon and Nikon. Sigma make some great lenses though.

 

[MadMailMan]

Do the names beta-max and VHS ring any bells. Sales volume dictate the winner, not the better product.

Just my 2c.

 

[Edduck]

*cough* *cough* (puts up hand)............

I have a Sigma SD14... Let's see first off I won it in the Go mag photo comp few years ago so i wasn't mad enough to buy one

it came with the Sigma 17-70mm f2.8-4 which an amazing and versatile lens for the price. At the time I only had a canon 350D and kit lens so getting the Sigma was quite a step up (or so I thought...).
The camera has excellent ergonomics and build quality and it's amazing how much detail can be resolved from the 4.7Mp sensor (about the same as my 350D 8mp sensor). BUT that is where the positives stop. It is frustratingly slow to use, always has a yellow/green tinge in the photos, has poor AF and and and list goes on. I don't know who does the marketing research at Sigma but they better get their head out of the stone age hole they're in...! They always seem to develop the cameras half way and then think no one will see the camera faults.
anyway, who am I to complain, I got the camera for free after all... One positive that did come out of getting the camera is I managed to convert the lens from SA mount to EF and retained AF

 

[Edduck]

I mean, as in Sigma DSLR shooters?

The SD1 price was just announced, and, let's just say it's a bit rich for my blood...



Anyway, I'm just curious to know if anyone here shoots Sigma and what made you choose Sigma?

Fixed and you forgot to mention the price, only $9700 :O if i'm not mistaken that is more than D3x...

 

[koffiejunkie]

Yeah, that's the thing. Canon & Nikon have a long history of making cameras. They know how to make cameras that have great functionality. It's not that Foveon is bad, it's just the implementation - like you said.

To that point (sorry Sony fans, this will probably offend you) Nikon uses the same sensors that Sony use in their camera. Yet the A900 is noisy at 200 ISO while the D3X with the same sensor shows hardly any noise at much higher settings. Same sensor, different cameras.

Do the names beta-max and VHS ring any bells. Sales volume dictate the winner, not the better product.

Too true! I still have a box of VHS tapes here!

*cough* *cough* (puts up hand)............

I have a Sigma SD14...

Awesome! Now we have all DSLR brands represented (except Fujifilm but that doesn't really count since they're not updating their model).

The camera has excellent ergonomics and build quality and it's amazing how much detail can be resolved from the 4.7Mp sensor (about the same as my 350D 8mp sensor). BUT that is where the positives stop. It is frustratingly slow to use, always has a yellow/green tinge in the photos, has poor AF and and and list goes on.

Thanks, that's useful to know. I believe the SD15 is better in that regard, but then again, that was just hearsay on the forums. Weather or not it actually is better is hard to know.

One positive that did come out of getting the camera is I managed to convert the lens from SA mount to EF and retained AF

Wow, that's impressive. That suggests that the firmware on their lenses know how to talk to all the different bodies, and the only difference is the physical layout of the mount.

Fixed

Thanks, fixed my post!

 

[Edduck]

Wow, that's impressive. That suggests that the firmware on their lenses know how to talk to all the different bodies, and the only difference is the physical layout of the mount.

The Sigma SA mount is an interesting mixed bag. Physically it is VERY similar to the Pentax K mount (I can use my old Pentax SMC 50mm f1.7 on the SD14) but electronically it uses the same lens AF algorithm as Canon. I was fortunate to have a broken Sigma 70-300mm EF mount. I basically just swopped the SA and EF mount plate and the did a bit of DIY magic with the electronics connector ribbon. For aesthetic reasons I removed the internal plastic shroud from the 70-300 and used it on the 17-70mm. This however required a bit of "reshaping"... to prevent it from rubbing against the floating element inside the 17-70.....

With this in mind many people have successfully converted EF to SA so that they can use their lovely L lenses on their SDs..... WHY they would butcher the Canon's I have no idea...

The other option is to remove the SA in-body mount and replace it with an EF from an old Canon film camera BUT this involves complete dissassembly of the SD camera....

Some Sigma fans obviously share similar traits with Apple purists...........

 

[koffiejunkie]

The Sigma SA mount is an interesting mixed bag. Physically it is VERY similar to the Pentax K mount (I can use my old Pentax SMC 50mm f1.7 on the SD14) but electronically it uses the same lens AF algorithm as Canon. I was fortunate to have a broken Sigma 70-300mm EF mount. I basically just swopped the SA and EF mount plate and the did a bit of DIY magic with the electronics connector ribbon. For aesthetic reasons I removed the internal plastic shroud from the 70-300 and used it on the 17-70mm. This however required a bit of "reshaping"... to prevent it from rubbing against the floating element inside the 17-70.....

That's pretty awesome!

Some Sigma fans obviously share similar traits with Apple purists...........

He he yes, the bitterness on that forum towards anyone suggesting Sigma might have shot themselves in the foot is quite something. Reminds me of the Red Hat Linux mailing lists in the bad old days!

 

[Trem]

Sigma conversion with AF advice

*cough* *cough* (puts up hand)............

I have a Sigma SD14... Let's see first off I won it in the Go mag photo comp few years ago so i wasn't mad enough to buy one

it came with the Sigma 17-70mm f2.8-4 which an amazing and versatile lens for the price. At the time I only had a canon 350D and kit lens so getting the Sigma was quite a step up (or so I thought...).
The camera has excellent ergonomics and build quality and it's amazing how much detail can be resolved from the 4.7Mp sensor (about the same as my 350D 8mp sensor). BUT that is where the positives stop. It is frustratingly slow to use, always has a yellow/green tinge in the photos, has poor AF and and and list goes on. I don't know who does the marketing research at Sigma but they better get their head out of the stone age hole they're in...! They always seem to develop the cameras half way and then think no one will see the camera faults.
anyway, who am I to complain, I got the camera for free after all... One positive that did come out of getting the camera is I managed to convert the lens from SA mount to EF and retained AF

Hi there,

Please could you give me advice on converting my SD14 mount to use EOS lenses with AF?

Thank you in advance.

Cheers,
Trem.