Architects Fees

I paid R30780 for a building costing R1.4M 5 years ago.

I gave room sizes with a sketch which he labelled a box house. He designed around my room sizes a house which is functional and pleasing to the eye, with a couple of WOW features that my practicality would never have envisaged.

His charge included all plans to the Municipality, Getting quotes from three accredited builders, three supervision visits and arbitration of any dispute.

I believe I got value for money, especially if I look at my Box idea compared to the finished product.
 
ToxicBunny said:
How exactly would he have known that?

There are hundreds upon hundreds of development plans in the city.. and you're expecting a draughtsman to know about some random road being built behind your property.....
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Any "draughtsman" or architect worth their salt doing plans for extensions of existing or new developments should know they have to first contact the local council to get the local building regulations and in particular the plans and building line limits for the property they are working with. That is the first principal of development on any property. The are no point in creating development plans for an estate just to find out afterwards you are doing it in a protected zone.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Well then, why didn't you know about it? Its your property?
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Maybe it only came out now that he wanted to do extensions, therefore he contacted the "architect". I will not pay this effort any cent, family or not. If a court case ensue this will be a loss to the architect as he did not follow the normal procedural requirements. See the post #42 prior to this.
 
wily me said:
Maybe it only came out now that he wanted to do extensions, therefore he contacted the "architect". I will not pay this effort any cent, family or not. If a court case ensue this will be a loss to the architect as he did not follow the normal procedural requirements. See the post #42 prior to this.
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My point actually still stands...

I am aware of all the developments going on around my area... especially the ones that could impact my own property.

Granted, I'm baffled by the 20m building line... because that is an insane building line. In Durbs, the most it gets to is 7.5m if that boundary fronts onto a road (and even then its relatively easy to get relaxed)
 
ToxicBunny said:
How exactly would he have known that?

There are hundreds upon hundreds of development plans in the city.. and you're expecting a draughtsman to know about some random road being built behind your property.....
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I believe he has gotten BUILDING LINES confused with a SERVITUDE. A SERVITUDE is registered against the Title Deeds of a property and is marked on the SG Diagram. A servitude is there for the provision of services I.E.: Power, Sewers&Drainage, Telecoms etc. Servitudes are generally very wide - a standard Power Line servitude is 20m i think. Under no circumstances are you allowed to build on servitudes and nor can they be relaxed or removed.

BUILDING LINES or "SIDE SPACES" are simulated imaginary lines a certain distance from your property boundary over which you may not build. These lines are not indicated on the SG diagram or Title Deeds, instead the measurements are governed by those wonderful people (and i mean they are truly wonderful people) called Town Planners. Each area has certain buildings associated with that land use zone. In Durban generally in a residential area your street frontage is 7.5m and your rear and side space is 5m.

If you build over the building lines with out obtaining the consent of the council either through a Relaxation Application or Special Consent Application then they can take you to court and force you to either get their permission or tear it down.


Some general information that would be of use to this thread:

The Road Reserve next to a National Road is usually 25m.

The very virtue of my job means that i deal with obtaining Town Planning and Building Inspectorate approvals on a daily basis.

You cannot submit a building plan for consideration without obtaining Town Planning approval first. The Building Inspectorate will not even look at the plan if it has not been passed by Town Planning. That is why the building plan was never approved in this guys case is because town planning reffered it before it could even get to the building inspector because the building encroached over the building line/servitude.

When you submit a plan for TOWN PLANNING APPROVAL the following are required (most municipalities work this way) :

1.At least 4 copies of the plans
2.The Title Deeds
3.SG Diagram

When you submit a plan for BUILDING INSPECTORATE APPROVAL the following are required (most municipalities work this way) :

1.At least 6 copies of the plans
2.The Title Deeds
3.SG Diagram
4.SACAP Architectural Compliance Certificate
5.SANS10400 forms signed by the OWNER and by the ARCHITECT & ENGINEER
6.If the owner of the property is not a natural person I.E. Company/Trust etc then a Board Resolution needs to accompany the SANS10400 forms giving whoever signed the SANS 10400 forms the permission to do so for that entity.

The SANS10400 was introduced this year - this is an INCREDIBLY onerous document and places EXTREME liability with the Architect and/or Engineer. An Engineer charges me R10k just to sign these forms because of the huge liability he is taken on when he signs them.

Cellular Base Stations are Exempt from needing at Architectural Compliance Certificate. (just useless titbit for you guys to file away)

SG Diagrams are publicly available on the Surveyor Generals website here: http://csg.dla.gov.za/esio/searchindex.htm

The key to getting your SG Diagram is knowing what your property description is and what township it falls under. Your street address IS NOT your property description.

Your property description is reflected on your Title Deed and can also be found using GIS systems.

eThekwini Municipality has one of the best GIS systems in the country and it is freely available for anyone to access: http://citymaps.durban.gov.za/website/master/viewer.htm (will not work on higher resolution screens so resize the window till it does work - and it only covers the eThekwini area)

The KZN dept. of Transport has a GIS system that covers the entirety of KZN and can be found here: http://gis.kzntransport.gov.za/transport/

Use the GIS system to find your property Description.

A property description for an Urban Area is only valid if it has two things: The ERF number and the Township Name. You need these two things to get an SG Diagram.

Examples: ERF 5, KRANSKOP. ERF 795, DURBAN. REMAINDER of ERF 567, CHATSWORTH.

Sometimes you will see things like this: 3/5067 what that means is that the land is PORTION 3 of ERF 5067 (i.e. the original ERF has been subdivided)

When you see something like this: RE/5067 that means that the land is REMAINDER of ERF 5067. (i.e. after it was subdivided that is what was left it is also known as portion 0)

Urban Land is land that is within a Town Planning Scheme. Pretty much all of suburb people fall into this category.

Rural Land is land which does NOT fall under a Town Planning scheme. Traditionally this is FARM land. All land in this country was once farm land out of which Town Planning Schemes were carved.

The property Description for farm land is a bit different. You need 3 things.

The Farm Name (every farm has a name)
The Farm Number (every farm has a number)
and the Registration Division (i.e.: FU, FS etc)

Example: The Farm Reiszicht 37457 Reg. Div. FU


Once you know the Property Description of a piece of land you can then obtain the SG Diagram and the Title Deeds.

I can publicly obtain the Title Deeds from websites such as WinDeed (its not free) and the SG Diagram i can obtain from the Surveyor General's website (free).

I hope that helps some people understand things a bit clearer :)
 
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Ahhhhh ok, calling it a Servitude makes the 20m figure make much more sense...

But, the owner should still have known about said Servitude in my opinion...
 
PROJECT COST BASED FEE

The project fee consists of two parts: the base plus the percentage.
The one is not reflected in the other, and the two figures should be added.
A hypothetical fee account would thus read: R 20 000 base fee plus 7% of R 1 000 000 = R20 000 plus R 70 000 equals R 90 000 total fee

The Competition Act, 1998 (Act No. 89, 1998) exists in order to provide all South Africans with equal opportunity to participate fairly in the national economy and to freely select the quality and variety of goods and services they desire.
 
He is perhaps suffering financially as he has ripped off other people in the past and word has gotten around about it? A good honest architect will not suffer financially at all. They will be direct and upfront about fees before he even starts drawing up plans.
I have two friends who are architects and they are rolling in the money and have to say no to some projects as they just cant handle all the work load being offered.
 
the fee seems about right, if he charges as per government recommendations(10-12,5% of estimated building cost).
btw, how can he just suck out an estimate without getting some input/calculations from a quantity surveyor?

and like you said, financially it is a bit tough for him so he will take full advantage of what he's allowed to charge his clients.

but for that fee he must design, help with plan submission, oversee the construction from start to finish, advise and specify materials(basically going around shopping for materials and presenting to you, from suggesting what tiles to use and what colour to paint your house).

he's not even doing half of that for that fee, in fact he's only doing like a weeks drawing work for a project that'll take about 2-3 months to complete

You can get away with a draftsman for much less(like around R3k-5k), and that will get you the basic service(drawing up the plan, no overseeing project) and this i basically all you need. selecting tiles and choosing paint colours is up to you

ps: im an architectural technologist so i know the game a bit...
 
Boeta B said:
the fee seems about right, if he charges as per government recommendations(10-12,5% of estimated building cost).
btw, how can he just suck out an estimate without getting some input/calculations from a quantity surveyor?

and like you said, financially it is a bit tough for him so he will take full advantage of what he's allowed to charge his clients.

but for that fee he must design, help with plan submission, oversee the construction from start to finish, advise and specify materials(basically going around shopping for materials and presenting to you, from suggesting what tiles to use and what colour to paint your house).

he's not even doing half of that for that fee, in fact he's only doing like a weeks drawing work for a project that'll take about 2-3 months to complete

You can get away with a draftsman for much less(like around R3k-5k), and that will get you the basic service(drawing up the plan, no overseeing project) and this i basically all you need. selecting tiles and choosing paint colours is up to you

ps: im an architectural technologist so i know the game a bit...
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edit: btw it is not the best of practice to invoice the client for the full amount before construction even started. R30k is not much, but you can split it up into 3 or 4 payments after each stage, linked to a percentage of the fee. for a smaller amount like R5k yes it is possible, but what you pay for is what you get..
 
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