Are South Africans beyond hope?

Foxhound5366

Foxhound5366

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I need a reality check here.

I've noticed a growing trend on South African news websites (like News24 and IOL) for outright racism to be expressed in comments, and there are *very* few people who stand up against the racists.

This could just be a self-selecting thing, where the racists are proactively looking for fuel and a soapbox to vent, while 'normal' people are in the shops buying Hello Kitty toys for their children, but it makes me seriously worried as a 'regular' South African.

Case in point, this story and the comments under it: http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Dear-South-Africans-20150103

No prizes for guessing that I'm 'The Fox 5366' lol. Did I seriously have to get into a discussion with somebody about why his beliefs are inherently racist? Did some people really have to react to that story with anger, rather than empathy (like a few others did at least)?

Where are the sane level-headed people in South Africa? Sometimes I wonder whether it really is that they're just not commenting online, or if most people actually DO share such extreme views.

That thought really gives me nightmares.

Is it any wonder that more and more people are disabling comment functionality (funnily enough I recently saw a story where PewDiePie had shut down his YouTube channel's comments). It so sad that the stupid people are 'winning'.
 
I would say the sane avoid commenting because they know it would either be flamed or just mean nothing. There's a saying, if you try argue with an idiot, they will bring your down to their level and beat you with experience.

I know I wouldn't comment on these sites because I know some irrational racist from either side is going to want to take me on about something.
 
ChocolateBadger said:
I would say the sane avoid commenting because they know it would either be flamed or just mean nothing. There's a saying, if you try argue with an idiot, they will bring your down to their level and beat you with experience.

I know I wouldn't comment on these sites because I know some irrational racist from either side is going to want to take me on about something.
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True ChocolateBadger, but I comment only so that something stands in opposition to it. I just keep thinking about what black South Africans coming online for the first time, amazed at the beautiful websites, will think when they see the toxic comments. They'll jump to a lot of conclusions about all white South Africans which (I sincerely hope) aren't valid.

You know the old saying ... all it takes for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing. I'm not exactly painting myself as all noble - I'm often wrong - but I'll at least keep trying to stand up for what I believe is right.
 
I believe its defiantly increasing. People are getting more racist, not less. I just have a look at people I have known for a long time.
 
I've had enough arguments with people to realise those who are genuinely racist won't change. I have also realised that those that call racism for even the most minute things won't change either. They see racism at every corner and through every door. I have had a few of these argument with ex-friends on FB and friends of friends. They are often not interested in debating the topic but would rather spout their racist vitriol unopposed. So I normally just end up being blocked :D

One problem is though Saffers have adopted a culture of framing every disagreement/opposing view as racist. We unfortunately have our ruling government to thank for that in part as that is who a large part of SA's population look up to after all.
 
Yeah Zenbaas, but it's not hard to see why the ANC does that. After all, they're not always wrong, and it's an easy way to score political points.

White South Africans aren't as racist as they're portrayed, or as they LOOK online thanks to a vocal few super-racists, but there is definitely growing animosity that's tipping the scales negatively in favour of the stupid people.
 
satanboy said:
Most humans as rubbish...accept it.
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Satanboy, I believe that while many act in a rubbish fashion, they're still the hero of their own personal stories in their own eyes. That implies that with a bit of effort, if you can come to understand their narrative from their perspective, you can start to understand the triggers that make them act in the way they do.

It's an emotionally exhausting process, and ultimately much easier to just say 'Meh, screw 'em', but every so often I try and at least invest a little something into them because I DO believe that we all ultimately want the same things. Peace, happiness, comfort and a Ferrari.
 
Foxhound5366 said:
Satanboy, I believe that while many act in a rubbish fashion, they're still the hero of their own personal stories in their own eyes. That implies that with a bit of effort, if you can come to understand their narrative from their perspective, you can start to understand the triggers that make them act in the way they do.

It's an emotionally exhausting process, and ultimately much easier to just say 'Meh, screw 'em', but every so often I try and at least invest a little something into them because I DO believe that we all ultimately want the same things. Peace, happiness, comfort and a Ferrari.
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I think I am a bit older than you, so I have done my bit and enjoyed a lot of frustration. I have made opened a handful of peoples eyes to different viewpoints (I know this because they told me so). I am done with humanity (well the idiots).
 
News24 commentary is utterly appalling. I don't bother to read it.

However, 'are South Africans beyond hope?' is a bit strong. There are morons the world over, and much of it is just inbred ignorance and fear, not to mention a ****ty reaction to real problems we are facing as a country.

It doesn't help that many of our politicians are still using race issues as their predominant platform.
 
The type of stories that make up news currently lends itself to racism since people feel AA/EE is to blame for Eskom etc. If the stories are about the state of the penguin population then you'd see less racist comments.
 
HavocXphere said:
The type of stories that make up news currently lends itself to racism since people feel AA/EE is to blame for Eskom etc. If the stories are about the state of the penguin population then you'd see less racist comments.
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Not on News24 lol. They manage to turn Sunday bakesales into ANC conspiracies.
 
Yeps, comments sections on various websites are a turn-off...it's easier not to engage at all but I'm afraid that just leaves the people with these views without anything to challenge them. So their attitudes are reinforced by those who agree with them and also those who argue back in the same way (without tolerance or understanding).

Foxhound5366 said:
but every so often I try and at least invest a little something into them because I DO believe that we all ultimately want the same things
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You're a bigger man than I, Foxhound.
 
Have you ever figured out who some of these commenters are? I have and they are usually pretty poor excuses for humans the type that you would just shake your head at and avoid as much as you can. Somehow the platform these sites give them make them feel important because people actually respond to them whereas in the real world they are shunned.
 
Beachless said:
Have you ever figured out who some of these commenters are? I have and they are usually pretty poor excuses for humans the type that you would just shake your head at and avoid as much as you can. Somehow the platform these sites give them make them feel important because people actually respond to them whereas in the real world they are shunned.
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Trolls (and 12 year old kids)
 
Its sad to say - but they are onto something with the Real Name principle.
The Net has matured and become such a pervasive presence that the principle of anonymity on it is becoming as ridiculous as people driving without a numberplate.
 
Well I get my news from eNews - where there are no comments. lol! On a serious note though. There are certain topics that I read about on News24. The racist comments are not a true reflection of our nation. Things have changed over the years. Born-frees these days don't have a problem mingling with kids from other races. They give me hope for the future.
 
It sounds like you are a moderator for some of these website comment sections? If not, then please leave those people to express themselves online, after all, there is nowhere else that they can safely vent their anger and frustration to current events affecting their daily lives. Or would you have them start up small terrorist groups and target the rest of the "sane" or "ethical" minded people?
 
Ryansr said:
It sounds like you are a moderator for some of these website comment sections? If not, then please leave those people to express themselves online, after all, there is nowhere else that they can safely vent their anger and frustration to current events affecting their daily lives. Or would you have them start up small terrorist groups and target the rest of the "sane" or "ethical" minded people?
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Ryansr, we all have a duty to moderate unbridled insanity. There was a time when if somebody insulted somebody else in public, witnesses could call them out to a gun-fight at noon. Today we deal in thumbs down and replies instead ... call it progress.

Do you not feel that racists ranting could be damaging, both to impressionable people (who might get swayed), to targeted people (who will get insulted or hurt), to other racists (who will feel vindicated), to society in general (which doesn't need more negativity)?

I'm sorry, but I'm willing to call people out on that sort of thing. It's 2015, not 1940. If people want to pretend the latter, they need to make a very good case for themselves, or be prepared to get what they receive.

And Jax_Maxit, I agree. The 'old' people just aren't dying quickly enough, and unfortunately kids learn too much from their elders through mimicry. I think the only end to racism will be when race officially dies as a concept - when it disappears off those annoying forms ('for statistical purposes'). However, with BEE still around, that's not likely to happen just yet.
 
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