Article: Road users failed SA: RTMC

[Sherbang]

I blame the government FOR LETTING HIM GET AWAY if he gets away with it.

You can't seem to differentiate between the act, and the responsibility for punishment for the act. Or perhaps you advocate vigilante justice?

No, I differentiate fine - I have no problem with blaming the government for ineffectual policing - I do have a problem with blaming the government because someone chooses to drive drunk. We have millions of citizens, we don't have millions of traffic police - they can't be everywhere all the time. South Africa is a huge country with long roads, it's impossible to police all the roads all the time. Someone made a comparison to New Zealand earlier in the thread (or the other thread on the same subject) - if SA was the same size as New Zealand it would be easy to police all the roads, wouldn't it? With probably half the staff.
Here, 142 motorists were caught driving under the influence of alcohol recently, in one day, that's an indictment of us, the people, not the government.

 

[Sherbang]

The driver of course. But it's still the governments responsibility to ensure those markings and rules of the road are clear and are in place.

So you are saying the government hasn't been clear enough that aggressive driving, drunken driving, etc are dangerous and may lead to fatal accidents?

 

[Sinbad]

So you are saying the government hasn't been clear enough that aggressive driving, drunken driving, etc are dangerous and may lead to fatal accidents?

They have not.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

No, I differentiate fine - I have no problem with blaming the government for ineffectual policing - I do have a problem with blaming the government because someone chooses to drive drunk. We have millions of citizens, we don't have millions of traffic police - they can't be everywhere all the time. South Africa is a huge country with long roads, it's impossible to police all the roads all the time. Someone made a comparison to New Zealand earlier in the thread (or the other thread on the same subject) - if SA was the same size as New Zealand it would be easy to police all the roads, wouldn't it? With probably half the staff.
Here, 142 motorists who were caught driving under the influence of alcohol recently, in one day, that's an indictment of us, the people, not the government.

I do understand your point, but the people do as they please because they are allowed to get away with it. Where is the zero tolerance policy on drunk drivers? Where is the prison sentence for drunk driving and culpable homicide? The government, in it's infinite wisdom, seems to think that holding someone in a cell for a weekend is enough of a deterrent. It's just too easy to buy your way out of an offence by either being handed a fine or a suspended sentence.

 

[Sinbad]

Every pack of cigarettes carries dire health warnings. People smoke anyway? Why? Because "chances are it won't happen to me". Same reason people ignore messages about dangerous driving. "I got away with it last time, nothing happened, it wont happen to me".

No real consequences. And by the time the accident happens, someone has lost their life and the lesson sinks in too late.

 

[Paul_S]

No, I differentiate fine - I have no problem with blaming the government for ineffectual policing - I do have a problem with blaming the government because someone chooses to drive drunk. We have millions of citizens, we don't have millions of traffic police - they can't be everywhere all the time.

The traffic police don't have to be everywhere all the time.
I used to be too scared to not stop dead at stop streets back in 1995. Why? Because the traffic police would sit in suburbs and pull over and fine anyone who didn't stop behind the line. It only took a single officer to control (scare) an entire neighbourhood into compliance.
I haven't seen that happen in the last 15 years of driving. Not once.
Now I'm too scared to completely stop at a stop sign out of fear of being tail ended by the idiots sitting on my tail who don't plan to stop.

Changing road behaviour through law enforcement means starting with the small things.
If a driver is too scared to cross a white line or skip a traffic light because he may get a severe fine or imprisonment then he's much more likely to think twice regarding driving under the influence of alcohol.

 

[DreamKing]

If the laws are actually applied and this is done fairly and consistently, I'm sure we would see an attitude change fairly quickly

sorry but I don't think it is the problem of the laws (including law enforcement).

this problem is far more complicated than to blame for only one or two reasons.

in short, I just blame the anc, that is.

 

[MyWorld]

Road users have failed South Africa

Help me out here... every single South African is a road user, so the road users ARE South Africa.

Or is government South Africa? Or is South Africa an Utopian ideal?

Find something else to blame, there is always apartheid if everything else fails.

Pathetic.

 

[akescpt]

the thing that bothers me is that why we as a soiciety think that drinking and driving is ohk. we hear this boxes boast of how drunk they were and they still dropped off people and drove home. but we stand there with a bek vol tanne. this used to happen alot when i was younger.

i include myself in this because i have never taken anyone to task about this. these stupid boxes just do it over and over and over.

 

[Sherbang]

the thing that bothers me is that why we as a soiciety think that drinking and driving is ohk. we hear this boxes boast of how drunk they were and they still dropped off people and drove home. but we stand there with a bek vol tanne. this used to happen alot when i was younger.

i include myself in this because i have never taken anyone to task about this. these stupid boxes just do it over and over and over.

It's the governments fault, they haven't taught us how to behave properly, apparently...

 

[Sinbad]

It's the governments fault, they haven't taught us how to behave properly, apparently...

And they set a flipping bad example. Even you have to admit that.

 

[Sherbang]

And they set a flipping bad example. Even you have to admit that.

Yes, we all copy the government all the time. We never question the government, do we? They set the example and we just follow, we have no free will, we are robots, it's all the governments fault. Did your computer crash and you lost everything? It's the governments fault for not educating you enough about backups. Did your baby drown in your swimming pool? It's the governments fault for not educating you about the dangers of swimming pools. Did you get into a drunken bar fight? It's the governments fault for not putting policemen in every bar to stop fights. Did your wife have an affair with someone else? It's the governments fault for not getting the message across that marriage is a monogamous commitment. Does your husband have a mistress? It's the governments fault for setting a bad example, if Zuma can do it, so can you... It's all the governments fault everything, we are just play-dough zombies in the hands of the government. Killed someone driving drunk? It's the governments fault for not educating you that driving drunk is a really bad idea. The government is like jesus, they take the responsibility for all of our sins, after all, it wasn't my fault, it was the government... bleh...

Oh sorry DreamKing, the ANC. it's all the ANC's fault...

 

[Sinbad]

No, many south africans DO NOT question the government. After all, we will have had two decades of ANC incompetence next year. If the population questioned, they would have been voted out 10 years ago. You continually absolve the government of blame for lack of leadership. What, pray tell, is the government's function then?

 

[Sherbang]

No, many south africans DO NOT question the government. After all, we will have had two decades of ANC incompetence next year. If the population questioned, they would have been voted out 10 years ago. You continually absolve the government of blame for lack of leadership. What, pray tell, is the government's function then?

um yeah, maybe people just prefer to put up with anc incompetence being that the only alternative they know was centuries of slavery and apartheid, it's all relative. I already said, the government is there, in my opinion, to protect and provide, not to dictate and make decisions for you.
If you are given a bullet proof vest, it's function is to protect you. If someone shoots at you and the vest fails to protect you, you can blame the vest for not protecting you, but you cannot blame the vest for shooting at you or accuse the vest of being responsible for you getting shot. The shooter is the only one to blame. In the same way, you can accuse the government of not enforcing the law properly but you cannot blame them because some drunken idiot drove into you. The drunkard is to blame, is responsible for injuring you, not the government. If people drive recklessly and kill each other on the roads, it's not governments fault anymore than it's the bullet proof vest's fault that someone shot you.

 

[Sinbad]

No-one is denying the culpability of the drunkard - but the government, as the final guardians of law and order who are failing to enforce said law and order, are equally culpable.

 

[undesign]

Yes, we all copy the government all the time. We never question the government, do we? They set the example and we just follow, we have no free will, we are robots, it's all the governments fault. Did your computer crash and you lost everything? It's the governments fault for not educating you enough about backups. Did your baby drown in your swimming pool? It's the governments fault for not educating you about the dangers of swimming pools. Did you get into a drunken bar fight? It's the governments fault for not putting policemen in every bar to stop fights. Did your wife have an affair with someone else? It's the governments fault for not getting the message across that marriage is a monogamous commitment. Does your husband have a mistress? It's the governments fault for setting a bad example, if Zuma can do it, so can you... It's all the governments fault everything, we are just play-dough zombies in the hands of the government. Killed someone driving drunk? It's the governments fault for not educating you that driving drunk is a really bad idea. The government is like jesus, they take the responsibility for all of our sins, after all, it wasn't my fault, it was the government... bleh...

Oh sorry DreamKing, the ANC. it's all the ANC's fault...

You argue like someone living in a first world country...

You can forget about instilling a culture of law abiding road users if you don't enforce properly - the reality for a large portion of our population.

 

[dlk001]

Johannesburg - More than 2100 motorists were arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol since December 1, the transport department said on Wednesday.

“This can't be normal... (between) December 1 and today (January 2), over 2100 people were arrested for drunk driving,” said spokesman Tiyani Rikhotso.

“Families and the economy continue to suffer and bleed because we are losing manpower when people are killed in accidents. The department is concerned because we continue to witness unnecessary loss of lives.”

In the accidents over the festive season, alcohol and excessive speed were “common denominators” in many of the fatal crashes.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/thousands-nabbed-for-drunk-driving-1.1446989#.UOR_Pm-cf6Y

 

[Mila]

I wonder what it is for normal month.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Given how the accident figures don't really go up during the month of december (if I remember correctly) I would guess the number of drunk drivers arrested is roughly normal as well.

Its just the time of year to put focus on the figures.

 

[DreamKing]

Yes, we all copy the government all the time. We never question the government, do we? They set the example and we just follow, we have no free will, we are robots, it's all the governments fault. Did your computer crash and you lost everything? It's the governments fault for not educating you enough about backups. Did your baby drown in your swimming pool? It's the governments fault for not educating you about the dangers of swimming pools. Did you get into a drunken bar fight? It's the governments fault for not putting policemen in every bar to stop fights. Did your wife have an affair with someone else? It's the governments fault for not getting the message across that marriage is a monogamous commitment. Does your husband have a mistress? It's the governments fault for setting a bad example, if Zuma can do it, so can you... It's all the governments fault everything, we are just play-dough zombies in the hands of the government. Killed someone driving drunk? It's the governments fault for not educating you that driving drunk is a really bad idea. The government is like jesus, they take the responsibility for all of our sins, after all, it wasn't my fault, it was the government... bleh...

Oh sorry DreamKing, the ANC. it's all the ANC's fault...

it is the problem of the whole SA. but that problem is created by anc. so I blame anc, what's wrong?
but how anc created the problem I think you know better than me.

I can briefly explain it in psychoanalysis. people have to displace their anger to "something", which is "driving behaviour".