Att: Theshogun

[Pitbull]

Ok now that I have your attention. I have no way to test this DPS and thought maybe you could help on your rogue.

I have noticed a high jump in my DPS if I use Shiv instead of SS. and replaced the finishing move with Evenom instead of Eviscate.

How would I test the DPS,

I mean just by doing a normal cycle in a boss fight of SS, SnD, Rupture, Eviscate and so forth

I do the same but don't use SS no more and use Shiv to add combo points and apply instant poisons (Deadly poison, stacks 5 times)

Now Shiv does about 1/2 the damage that SS does but is more energy efficient and also makes sure the poisons sticks. and my evenom crits for almost 4k damage, that is about 1.5k more than the Eviscate crits.

I think this must be some kind of exploit as my DPS almost doubles.

Can you try it on your Rogue also ? and then just confrim my findings

 

[Barfish88]

Sup

found that out as well.

On a normal boss my combo is

ss,ss, snd, shiv, shiv, shiv,shiv,shiv, envenom, shiv, shiv, snd, shiv,shiv,shiv,shiv,shiv, envenom etc


ps: Gdiza go play with your barbie dolls

 

[Barfish88]

It also would depend on your talent tree. I am using shadowpanthers combat swords. awesome build. been dropping ap for hit rating lately and its awesome atm i have 160hit and 1500 ap

 

[Pitbull]

It also would depend on your talent tree. I am using shadowpanthers combat swords. awesome build. been dropping ap for hit rating lately and its awesome atm i have 160hit and 1500 ap

20/41/00

it was 19/42/00. Now with me having discovered this, i think I'll have to rework my tallent tree

 

[TheShogun]

Ok, here's my standard combat cycle from start to finish.
I open up with Garotte (if you get the Immune message it just means your target cannot be silenced) SS, SnD, 5x SS, SnD, 5xSS, Rupture.
Rinse and Repeat.
Obviously things vary on trash etc and in some boss fights, like Leothras, you want to conserve combo points on your target for movement periods (so when u get back you can rip out a SnD immediately)
I never ever use Shiv or Envenom.
Shiv's Damage to Energy ratio is actually lower then SS. At one point Shiv was bugged so it couldn't be Dodged or Parried and it was actually good but alas no longer.
I never use Envenom as a finisher as it's not as good as Evicerate or Rupture.
I only finish with Rupture unless I'm pounding on a boss who is below 5%.

I'll take a look at your cycle and try it out but I doubt it will be better then what I'm currently doing.
I'm very fortunate to be in a pretty good Raid Group setup. We typically Raid with 3 Rogues (myself included) a dedicated Feral DPS Druid and an Enhance Shammy. We've kicked around potentially adding a Warrior but it would mean one of us Rogues loses out a lot and as a Melee group our Damage Output is consistently excellent so why break a winning formula.

 

[Pitbull]

I used the same cycle as you.

Just replace SS with Shiv (Off hand [Deadly poison]) and replace Eviscate with Evenom. Then just let me know what it does to your DPS.

Much appreciated

 

[Barfish88]

20/41/00 from Shadowpanther, then shiv and envenom will deal the biggest dps.

 

[TheShogun]

20/41/00 from Shadowpanther, then shiv and envenom will deal the biggest dps.

I'm not sold on that.

What I read at EJ is directly opposite.

Still, proof is in the pudding so I'll give it a spin and see.

 

[Barfish88]

Alot of the time i use cs, snd, shiv x 5, rip, shiv x 5 envenom.

The biggest crit I have had was with shiv, envenom combo. replace ss with shiv see how that goes first.

 

[Pitbull]

I'm not sold on that.

What I read at EJ is directly opposite.

Still, proof is in the pudding so I'll give it a spin and see.

I have seen the difference, I would just like you to try it and confirm it for me

 

[TheShogun]

Thank Odin for 3G cellphones to bypass proxies.
I did a bit of reading on Shadowpanther and EJ around Shiv and Envenom.

Firstly, Shadowpanther isn't very good. It's a bunch of spreadhsheets with almost no supporting maths explaining the reasoning behind it.
It's not necessarily wrong, it's just not as solid as EJ.

Secondly, EJ has some great maths on why Shiv isn't as good as SS and why Envenom has only limited use.

According to this post (http://elitistjerks.com/482003-post741.html) once you are over 1731 AP (rounded off) Rupture is better then Envenom.
My current unbuffed AP is about 1750 so Rupture will always be superior to me.

As for Shiv there's some great maths around it here (http://elitistjerks.com/481977-post739.html)
I'm using a Gladiator's Quickblade offhand so at 1.50 Speed a Shiv costs me 35energy.
Even with Instant Poison (which is far superior to Deadly for Shiv) it's still less Damage Per Energy.
I think the difference is coming from gear levels.

If you're sitting at 3K buffed AP with Totems, Food, Procs, etc Shiv isn't going to do nearly as well as Sinister Strike.

One thing I'm very careful of is how items scale. For example, at one stage I was using the Sunfury Bow off Prince because it was giving me better DPS but after a few gear upgrades and so forth I actually found that my Distracting Blades from MgT were a better option.
Thankfully I never DE'd em because I figured they'd scale.

The same holds true for playstyles.
At my current gear level Shiv and Envenom have been outscaled by SS and Rupture.