Bacteria makes evolutionary leap

UnoPanelvan said:
44000 generations is how many years? Wake up and catch a cold, maybe then that will lay the groundwork for another mutation in 400 000+ years.
The Shiite people will believe boggles the mind.
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Years?:confused: Bacteria multiply crazy fast...no years involved. A few days at most.
 
btw, how do they know this is not just normal adaption "within species". I mean bacteria are known to adapt at alarming rates anyway? :confused: Did the article say anything about that?
 
Garyvdh said:
btw, how do they know this is not just normal adaption "within species". I mean bacteria are known to adapt at alarming rates anyway? :confused: Did the article say anything about that?
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No your missing the point. Its not the speed at which it adapted thats amazing (thats just cool because it allows them to observer it start to finish).

The point is that it is not "adapting" but rather making a "jump" in evolution.

e.g. Creationism's argument that birds can't have evolved wings because "half" a wing is no use...no advantage and would therefore have been weeded out of the genepool...thereby never allowing a true wing to evolve.

Thats why you need a fairly large jump in evolution between no wing and a usable wing. This is a similar jump...in a nice closed off timeframe.

btw I'm not saying the wing example/"jump" happened...its just an explanation thing.
 
K, I'll bite.

Just how big do you guys think this "leap/jump" is from looking at the data?
 
Garyvdh said:
btw, how do they know this is not just normal adaption "within species". I mean bacteria are known to adapt at alarming rates anyway? :confused: Did the article say anything about that?
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What the article says:

Mostly, the patterns Lenski saw were similar in each separate population. All 12 evolved larger cells, for example, as well as faster growth rates on the glucose they were fed, and lower peak population densities.

But sometime around the 31,500th generation, something dramatic happened in just one of the populations – the bacteria suddenly acquired the ability to metabolise citrate, a second nutrient in their culture medium that E. coli normally cannot use.

Indeed, the inability to use citrate is one of the traits by which bacteriologists distinguish E. coli from other species. The citrate-using mutants increased in population size and diversity.

"It's the most profound change we have seen during the experiment. This was clearly something quite different for them, and it's outside what was normally considered the bounds of E. coli as a species, which makes it especially interesting," says Lenski.
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aaah, I see. So it is not a progressive adaptation to surrounding changes, but a mutation that suddenly becomes beneficial?
 
Teleological... are you not a believer in God? I mean you constantly speak of evolution... didn't you know that it is a sin to think... let alone about evolution. You don't even have to agree with it.... just getting into a discussion about it is a sin. STOP SINNING! I'm gunna tell your pastor/priest/imam/scheik/rabi!
 
nauseous_monkey said:
Teleological... are you not a believer in God? I mean you constantly speak of evolution... didn't you know that it is a sin to think... let alone about evolution. You don't even have to agree with it.... just getting into a discussion about it is a sin. STOP SINNING! I'm gunna tell your pastor/priest/imam/scheik/rabi!
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ooo sod off :p

Why do you guys that dont believe in a god always chase the guys that do believe in a god and can enjoy/have a constructive debate, away?

Teleological usualy has valid scientific facts to add to the debate, but you just want to troll!!

Dam man you guys always hammer on those of us that believe in a god, focking hell you are by far more irritating and close-minded then most religious people.... If you have nothing constructive to add then please leave it to the the others to debate it.
 
HavocXphere said:
I'm not a biologist. But seeing as I can't live of citrate...I assume its a fairly large leap.
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Ok i am asking a question: Isnt this just addapting? and not evolving?

It is still bacteria right? Shouldnt it evolve into a different "lifeform" or at the least another species, and yes know it can "digest" citrates now but my system cant digest fruits and veggies well but that doesnt mean i have evolved to a diffrent species.
Or is this more the case of : its kind off like a human living of carbon and helium?

Again it is a question not an open season ticket to spam me with : ZOMG WTF you religious zealot!?!?!?! :p
 
Devill said:
ooo sod off :p

Why do you guys that dont believe in a god always chase the guys that do believe in a god and can enjoy/have a constructive debate, away?

Teleological usualy has valid scientific facts to add to the debate, but you just want to troll!!

Dam man you guys always hammer on those of us that believe in a god, focking hell you are by far more irritating and close-minded then most religious people.... If you have nothing constructive to add then please leave it to the the others to debate it.
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Name one logical or Reasonable conclusion Teleological has ever come to.... name one valid fact that he has ever contributed to a discussion. Teleological has made is mind up on what he believes and has not spent a single 45min in a single University lecture on Biology of any type. This is a fact. You can get lured into his mumbo jumbo rifraf but I promise you none of us heathens are dumb enough.

Believing in God is stupid. But If you want my opinion on that you should go to the PD section.
 
Devill said:
Ok i am asking a question: Isnt this just addapting? and not evolving?
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Evolving and adapting are the same thing in terms of theory of evolution. Both imply being better at surviving in the given environment. (Technically it could also evolve into something inferior I suppose).

Devill said:
It is still bacteria right? Shouldnt it evolve into a different "lifeform" or at the least another species, and yes know it can "digest" citrates now but my system cant digest fruits and veggies well but that doesnt mean i have evolved to a diffrent species.
Or is this more the case of : its kind off like a human living of carbon and helium?
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I dunno what the official criteria for a "new" specie are. But "evolved" does not imply that it is a new specie...it just says it is different/better adapted.

Think of it this way: At the moment you can't metabolize titanium/plutonium/whatever. For your body to be able to do that, many things in your body would have to change at the same time....or else we end up in a "half wing" situation as I described previously. i.e. the jump/coincidence was considered to unlikely to be feasible. This bacteria seems to have managed it though.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this article....I dunno...biology is not my strong suit.:o
 
HavocXphere said:
Evolving and adapting are the same thing in terms of theory of evolution. Both imply being better at surviving in the given environment. (Technically it could also evolve into something inferior I suppose).
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thanks for the reply :)

But if my skin becomes more tan i am not evolving im simply addapting, dont you think? Know more then the average joe about Biology but im also no expert in :o

But it is a pretty cool article :D
 
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