Best RA

Vengeful said:
Fund fact sheets, reading is a must. Might be confusing, but once you know how, makes things a fair bit better.

Fees as others have mentioned is a killer to investments (nothing more than 1%). In SA, there are a few options 10X, Coronation, Allen Grays, EE, which you can do self investing without the middle man (needs to be compliant to RA laws in SA in terms of exposure to certain asset classes).

Also understand what risk profile you are, and not the standard one, there are better Risk profile assessors out there.
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I might be wrong but the main term to look for in the Fund Fact Sheet is the Total Expense Ratio (TER)

Sygnia Skeleton 70 is around 0.43% - 0.53%.
 
backstreetboy said:
Will be the high equity or equivalent to the Sygnia Skeleton 70 balanced fund.
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SauRoNZA said:
Unless you are very near retirement you should be in the High Equity one by default.

And that's the one that posted those returns for last year.
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BRB let me check mine.

edit: I'm on 10X High Equity Index Fund (Class E) (default glide path)
 
CamiKaze said:
I might be wrong but the main term to look for in the Fund Fact Sheet is the Total Expense Ratio (TER)

Sygnia Skeleton 70 is around 0.43% - 0.53%.
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Personally I care more for the performance after costs figures.

Low costs are great, but meaningless if the performance was also lacking.

Which is why the Sygnia vs 10x cost fight has never bothered me as it levels out and depending on over how long you look 10x often wins.
 
azbob said:
BRB let me check mine.

edit: I'm on 10X High Equity Index Fund (Class E) (default glide path)
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So yeah if you want to argue Sygnia (Skeleton 70 everyone loves to punt here) vs 10x and ignore the cost argument long enough you'll realise you were better off with 10X in 2021 by a rather large margin.

Other years it's different again, over the longer term it probably won't really matter either which way.

10x has provided excellent service over the years and I'm happy with the costs and performance as they are so have never seen a reason to change or promote Sygnia over it.

At the same time if someone goes Sygnia instead they aren't losing either, still beats everything else out there stuck with active management and bullshit costs.

*****

Note the 24,2% was AFTER fees.

Sygnia did 18,6% and it's unclear if that before or after fees but either way it's a massive gap.

Besides the way I read it Sygnia is the more expensive one at a total of 0.94% in total of confusing costs whereas 10X is 1,3% in a simple one one liner.

Ultimately it's all just words and how it's represented as Sygnia loves to say half the costs are deducted already (TER & TC) and only management fees come off the top it's still not "just" 0.4% as they love to make it sound and is typical investment jargon to throw people off.

I much prefer 10x's up front way of throwing it all together as a single cost.
 
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SauRoNZA said:
So yeah if you want to argue Sygnia (Skeleton 70 everyone loves to punt here) vs 10x and ignore the cost argument long enough you'll realise you were better off with 10X in 2021 by a rather large margin.

Other years it's different again, over the longer term it probably won't really matter either which way.

10x has provided excellent service over the years and I'm happy with the costs and performance as they are so have never seen a reason to change or promote Sygnia over it.

At the same time if someone goes Sygnia instead they aren't losing either, still beats everything else out there stuck with active management and bullshit costs.
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Well, I have a preservation fund which I recently moved from Liberty to Sygnia and split as below:

Sygnia Skeleton Balanced 70 Fund A 65%
Sygnia CPI + 6% Fund D 35%

Reconsidering the CPI+6% fund though
 
SauRoNZA said:
So yeah if you want to argue Sygnia (Skeleton 70 everyone loves to punt here) vs 10x and ignore the cost argument long enough you'll realise you were better off with 10X in 2021 by a rather large margin.

Other years it's different again, over the longer term it probably won't really matter either which way.

10x has provided excellent service over the years and I'm happy with the costs and performance as they are so have never seen a reason to change or promote Sygnia over it.

At the same time if someone goes Sygnia instead they aren't losing either, still beats everything else out there stuck with active management and bullshit costs.

*****

Note the 24,2% was AFTER fees.

Sygnia did 18,6% and it's unclear if that before or after fees but either way it's a massive gap.

Besides the way I read it Sygnia is the more expensive one at a total of 1,46% in total of confusing costs whereas 10X is 1,3% in a simple one one liner.

Ultimately it's all just words and how it's represented as Sygnia loves to say half the costs are deducted already (TER & TC) and only management fees come off the top it's still not "just" 0.4% as they love to make it sounds and is typical investment jargon to throw people off.

I much prefer 10x's up front way of throwing it all together as a single cost.
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Que? https://www.sygnia.co.za/fund/sygnia-skeleton-balanced-70-fund
Total Investment Charge (TIC) 0.52% (Sep 2021)
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azbob said:
The effective annual cost on my Sygnia portfolio is listed as 0.94%
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Correct I made a whoopsie by adding two together.

Still it's a long shot (basically double) from the marketing speak which BSB is falling for at the magical 0.52%.

Inconsequential when you look at it offset against the performance figures.
 
azbob said:
Well, I have a preservation fund which I recently moved from Liberty to Sygnia and split as below:

Sygnia Skeleton Balanced 70 Fund A 65%
Sygnia CPI + 6% Fund D 35%

Reconsidering the CPI+6% fund though
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Anything will beat Liberty.

You were probably giving 40% away in fees every month before it even got invested.
 
SauRoNZA said:
That's not your only cost.

You have a Management Fee and some others on top of that as well.

But I did **** up and add Total Investment Charge to the TER & TC while it's already the combination of both.

So it should be....

Management Fee : 0.35%
Other Cost : 0.02%
VAT : 0.05%
TER : 0.42%
TC : 0.1%

Total : 0.94%.
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You're doing creative accounting... the TER already includes the management fee. So it's:
Management Fee : 0.35%
+ Other Cost : 0.02%
+ VAT : 0.05%
= TER : 0.42%
+ TC : 0.1%

Total : 0.52% (TIC)

Mine is at 0.59% because I signed up via the Roboadvisor but it's still well below everyone else and a no brainer.
 
backstreetboy said:
You're doing creative accounting... the TER already includes the management fee. So it's:
Management Fee : 0.35%
+ Other Cost : 0.02%
+ VAT : 0.05%
= TER : 0.42%
+ TC : 0.1%

Total : 0.52% (TIC)

Mine is at 0.59% because I signed up via the Roboadvisor but it's still well below everyone else and a no brainer.
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And yet #30 confirms what I’ve said.

It’s not creative accounting, it’s right in the fact sheet you linked.

And even if you were right, cost isn’t everything. Total performance after costs is all that should matter and be compared.

The TIC is only the TER + TC.
 
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SauRoNZA said:
And yet #30 confirms what I’ve said.

It’s not creative accounting, it’s right in the fact sheet you linked.
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azbob said:
Well, I have a preservation fund which I recently moved from Liberty to Sygnia and split as below:

Sygnia Skeleton Balanced 70 Fund A 65%
Sygnia CPI + 6% Fund D 35%

Reconsidering the CPI+6% fund though
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He's got other funds with them as well.
SauRoNZA said:
And even if you were right, cost isn’t everything. Total performance after costs is all that should matter and be compared.
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It's still significant https://www.mymoneytree.co.za/calculator/ra/
SauRoNZA said:
The TIC is only the TER + TC.
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The TER includes the management fee https://www.investopedia.com/terms/...e of the,fees, and other operational expenses.
The total expense ratio (TER) is a measure of the total costs associated with managing and operating an investment fund, such as a mutual fund. These costs consist primarily of management fees and additional expenses, such as trading fees, legal fees, auditor fees, and other operational expenses.
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Why do these advisor types never have sticking power in these threads? :unsure: ;)

Take that Sanlam Echo Bonus BS:

1646226263192.png

Sanlam will definitely not have gotten me 40% growth for a 4.2% fee compared to 10X index return of 24.8% for a 1% fee. I'd rather save the 3.2% and have it grow in the investment and compound, than to maybe hope for some Echo Bonus in however many years, that's just being funded by part of my excess fees anyway,
 
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