Bitcoin Thread

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Adenoid Hynkel said:
And the issue is? If you're making profit from trading or otherwise, why are you exempt from paying any tax on it?
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You are not...

I have been paying tax on my gains for years.

Gotta realize that there will always be ppl trying to evade tax whether it be crypto or a backyard mechanic taking cash and not declaring it.

Reality is it can catch up to you at any time and a 400% penalty is pretty freaking steep.


I pay my due and sleep well at night.
 
Snyper564 said:
You are not...

I have been paying tax on my gains for years.

Gotta realize that there will always be ppl trying to evade tax whether it be crypto or a backyard mechanic taking cash and not declaring it.

Reality is it can catch up to you at any time and a 400% penalty is pretty freaking steep.


I pay my due and sleep well at night.
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Exactly. Pay taxes and comply with South African law.
 
I still haven't figured out if people who object to paying tax on crypto profits are doing so because they thought they had found a loophole which is closing or because they object to paying tax at all. If the former, well it is inevitable that governments are going to close loopholes when these cost significant revenue. If the latter, why should any of us investing in shares pay tax on profit when crypto profits remain untaxed?
 
Wary GOM said:
I still haven't figured out if people who object to paying tax on crypto profits are doing so because they thought they had found a loophole which is closing or because they object to paying tax at all. If the former, well it is inevitable that governments are going to close loopholes when these cost significant revenue. If the latter, why should any of us investing in shares pay tax on profit when crypto profits remain untaxed?
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I feel strongly against paying crypto taxes, but if I cash some out I will pay the tax. Purely and only because I don't wan't to deal with the possible consequences for tax evasion.

On the other hand, the majority of my crypto that I have had for years, that is untraceable, and that I will never sell because I won't need to. - SARS can go and suck it!
 
Sensorei said:
I feel strongly against paying crypto taxes, but if I cash some out I will pay the tax. Purely and only because I don't wan't to deal with the possible consequences for tax evasion.

On the other hand, the majority of my crypto that I have had for years, that is untraceable, and that I will never sell because I won't need to. - SARS can go and suck it!
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If I may ask, why specifically crypto taxes?
[I feel strongly against paying all taxes that are going to be misused.]
 
Wary GOM said:
If I may ask, why specifically crypto taxes?
[I feel strongly against paying all taxes that are going to be misused.]
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My crypto that I hold long term as a store of value is a hedge against the crumbling buying power of the Rand and fiat currency in general due to inflation manipulated by our government and reserve banks. If our savings was safe from inflation being kept in fiat, I would not have a need for most of my crypto. Inflation is theft to enrich the government and well connected.

Paying tax on my bitcoin to the government, is like a rape victim buying a gift for their rapist for only raping them and not killing them.

Margin trading profits I do see differently and don't feel as bad about having to cough up for. But it still stings knowing that most tax money is misappropriated.
 
Sensorei said:
On the other hand, the majority of my crypto that I have had for years, that is untraceable, and that I will never sell because I won't need to. - SARS can go and suck it!
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Well it's only a taxable event when you sell, so nothing to worry about.
 
dsi said:
Well it's only a taxable event when you sell, so nothing to worry about.
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Even if you haven't cashed out SARS requires you to declare and pay tax if you exchange one crypto for another crypto, have mined crypto, received rewards for staking a crypto, or received free tokens from a hard fork or airdrop. :mad:
 
Sensorei said:
Even if you haven't cashed out SARS requires you to declare and pay tax if you exchange one crypto for another crypto, have mined crypto, received rewards for staking a crypto, or received free tokens from a hard fork or airdrop. :mad:
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So let's say you buy bitcoin with rand.. and then after a while you spend half your bitcoin on ethereum .. how does paying tax work on that if you haven't sold your crypto?
 
dsi said:
So let's say you buy bitcoin with rand.. and then after a while you spend half your bitcoin on ethereum .. how does paying tax work on that if you haven't sold your crypto?
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Yes it's f***ing nuts.

Basically if you bought R100,000 worth of BTC on Luno, and then 6 months later when it was worth R195,000 you exchanged it all for ETH to buy a Lazy Ape NFT, then you need to declare and pay tax on that R95,000 profit. It's seen as taxable income, and you exchanged 'property' for other 'property' (ETH) which is a taxable event...

So if you're a trader it is retarded to even consider trading on Luno or a local exchange, because every time you change a crypto to Rand or vice versa you are required by law to declare and calculate profit, and SARS can access all that info with a simple request to the exchange if they have reason to suspect you.
 
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dsi said:
So let's say you buy bitcoin with rand.. and then after a while you spend half your bitcoin on ethereum .. how does paying tax work on that if you haven't sold your crypto?
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Seriously there are soooooo many articles floating around on this now. It's honestly been covered to death.

Sars and tax law is pretty clear for this. Just because ppl disregard it or don't want to learn abt it doesn't absolve you from your potential liability.

Same logic applies if you bought btc traded that for a car or house or doge coin... All taxable events...

Same logic also applies if I bought shells and traded shells for car or house or doge coin...

Ppl go on and on and on about profit being taxable but forget abt about the fact that losses are deductible to.

If you don't wanna pay tax on crypto gains. Don't do crypto...
 
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Snyper564 said:
Seriously there are soooooo many articles floating around on this now. It's honestly been covered to death.

Sars and tax law is pretty clear for this. Just because ppl disregard it or don't want to learn abt it doesn't absolve you from your potential liability.

Same logic applies if you bought btc traded that for a car or house or doge coin... All taxable events...

Same logic also applies if I bought shells and traded shells for car or house or doge coin...

Ppl go on and on and on about profit being taxable but forget abt about the fact that losses are deductible to.
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But then the big question evil crypto tax dodgers will ask is, how will SARS ever be able to access the details about our ByBit trades and trading profits, or any info from exchanges where KYC was not required?
 
Sensorei said:
But then the big question evil crypto tax dodgers will ask is, how will SARS ever be able to access the details about our ByBit trades and trading profits, or any info from exchanges where KYC was not required?
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I get it don't get me wrong. As I pointed out above there will always be tax dodgers whether it be back yard mechanics or ppl using non kyc exchanges or btc atms.

It's your choice.

I am fully aware of how to totally keep every single one of my gains pretty much off the record, i pay my dues. I sleep perfectly OK at night.

The reality is at any moment if you try keep this all off the record and not pay and it does catch up that 400% penalty is just not worth it.
 
Sensorei said:
Yes it's f***ing nuts.

Basically if you bought R100,000 worth of BTC on Luno, and then 6 months later when it was worth R195,000 you exchanged it all for ETH to buy a Lazy Ape NFT, then you need to declare and pay tax on that R95,000 profit. It's seen as taxable income, and you exchanged 'property' for other 'property' (ETH) which is a taxable event...
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So you have to pay tax on the R95,000..but you haven't sold any of it to rand yet? So I guess you pay tax with zar in your bank account? Now let's say the Lazy Ape NFT you bought for R195,000 crashed 90% so you make a R175500 loss.. now what, keeping in mind you haven't sold any of these crypto holdings to ZAR yet.. SARS pays you back?
 
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dsi said:
So you have to pay tax on the R95,000..but you haven't sold any of it to rand yet? So I guess you pay tax with zar in your bank account? Now let's say the Lazy Ape NFT you bought for R195,000 crashed 90% so you make a R175500 loss.. now what, keeping in mind you haven't sold any of these crypto holdings to ZAR yet.. SARS pays you back?
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Until you sell it or exchange it you haven't realized a loss, it's just worth less.

But if you sold it at a loss, you realize a tax loss, which you can set off against other crypto gains you might have.
 
dsi said:
So you have to pay tax on the R95,000..but you haven't sold any of it to rand yet?
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Yes exactly.
dsi said:
So I guess you pay tax with zar in your bank account?
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SARS doesn't care. Just pay them what you owe them.
dsi said:
Now let's say the Lazy Ape NFT you bought for R195,000 crashed 90% so you make a R175500 loss.. now what, keeping in mind you haven't sold any of these crypto holdings to ZAR yet.. SARS pays you back?
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Not their problem. Your loss and your responsibility for making a bad investment decision but the loss will deductable luckily. Pay up. It's the "right thing to do." Plus, Snyper564 says you'll sleep better.
 
Snyper564 said:
Until you sell it or exchange it you haven't realized a loss, it's just worth less.
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Ok so if you sold the NTF back to eth, at a loss.. then it's seen as a realized loss? And how would you show proof of this loss to sars?
 
dsi said:
Ok so if you sold the NTF back to eth, at a loss.. then it's seen as a realized loss? And how would you show proof of this loss to sars?
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You should have records to prove this. Proof of purchase sale prices etc.
 
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