"Black students still suppressed - Vavi"

[smokey]

what a crock - it's all excuses - I come form a poor background where my parents worked 16 to 18 hour days and never spent any time with me to assist with anything educational. I turned out quite ok even if I say so myself. If you are given the right tools to achieve something and you don't use it you are a failure (I know that some of the schools have a lack of text books and classrooms and even teachers but that is the whole point of the discussion no?)

This is survival of the fittest in human terms. It's fine and well for all the bleeding hearts to be high on hippy juice but at some point people have to take charge of their own lives and stop making excuses for their own laziness and incompetence.

Mate, I agree with you on the bolded part, but that doesn't mean that family have no influence on your development. A child with a parent who has a university education is far more likely to finish varsity than one who comes from a broke, uneducated family. It's just the way the world works.

 

[warchylde]

Mate, I agree with you on the bolded part, but that doesn't mean that family have no influence on your development. A child with a parent who has a university education is far more likely to finish varsity than one who comes from a broke, uneducated family. It's just the way the world works.

My mother has the equivalent of standard 8 and my old man only has matric. Why has this never limited me?

 

[Messugga]

Why has this never limited me?

Who says it hasn't? Who says you don't actually have far greater potential than you have currently realized? Besides that, you may just be an exception to the rule. My parents also only have matric, but they still read to me as a child or forced me to read - something I now love - and encouraged me to do well because they understood the value of a good education. The reality is that parents who can't read can't read to their children and build those skills starting at an early age. Instead, they are probably fed poor grammar and a small vocabulary, not to mention lack of other mental stimulus. These factors combine to create a definite disadvantage for the majority out there.

 

[warchylde]

Who says it hasn't? Who says you don't actually have far greater potential than you have currently realized? Besides that, you may just be an exception to the rule. My parents also only have matric, but they still read to me as a child or forced me to read - something I now love - and encouraged me to do well because they understood the value of a good education. The reality is that parents who can't read can't read to their children and build those skills starting at an early age. Instead, they are probably fed poor grammar and a small vocabulary, not to mention lack of other mental stimulus. These factors combine to create a definite disadvantage for the majority out there.

You make a valid point but the one I am trying to make is that the government is so full of excuses. At the end of the day it's each persons own will that carries him forward and if a person lacks that there is nothing anyone can do about it (unless you give them a choice, study hard and have a future, strike toyi toyi and burn down schools and become a street sweeper. This is not rocket science). It's like bringing a horse to water and then sucking on it's back side to make it drink... it doesn't work. People need to WANT to better themselves and the longer they make excuses the longer it will take to rectify the situation.

 

[Messugga]

You make a valid point but the one I am trying to make is that the government is so full of excuses. At the end of the day it's each persons own will that carries him forward and if a person lacks that there is nothing anyone can do about it (unless you give them a choice, study hard and have a future, strike toyi toyi and burn down schools and become a street sweeper. This is not rocket science). It's like bringing a horse to water and then sucking on it's back side to make it drink... it doesn't work. People need to WANT to better themselves and the longer they make excuses the longer it will take to rectify the situation.

But why would I want to better myself if government gives me everything for free? Money? Just get knocked up and you get child welfare grants. A house? Hell, you can get that for free too. Sure, living conditions aren't great, but to some that is acceptable. This is why we have so many beggars on our streets. Not because they can't find work, but a lot of them because they do not want to work as it is easier to just stand around and chat all day, asking for money.
You are absolutely correct in that people have to want to better themselves, the question is how do you get them to adopt that mindset? The message broadcast by rap and hip-hop - the so-called role-models for the majority of our youth these days - embeds ideas that say you do not have to have an education or even need the ability to speak properly ("The way I r", a song title that annoys the living daylights out of me, comes to mind) in order to become wealthy. This needs to change.

 

[murraybiscuit]

You make a valid point but the one I am trying to make is that the government is so full of excuses. At the end of the day it's each persons own will that carries him forward and if a person lacks that there is nothing anyone can do about it (unless you give them a choice, study hard and have a future, strike toyi toyi and burn down schools and become a street sweeper. This is not rocket science). It's like bringing a horse to water and then sucking on it's back side to make it drink... it doesn't work. People need to WANT to better themselves and the longer they make excuses the longer it will take to rectify the situation.

agreed. they're just posturing for the upcoming elections.
knowing that education will be a key issue, it's better to build the perception that the problem isn't their own lack of delivery.
by blaming it on the past, they're basically saying that even if there were a classroom with a good teacher and a set of desks and textbooks, the pupils would still fail, because their parents aren't literate.
this sounds like bs to me, because in situations where pupils have adequate learning resources, they should pass, regardless of their skin colour.
are they not therefore undermining the potential of the children, by saying that the kids should be pushed through, and assuming that they can't do it themselves?

 

[warchylde]

But why would I want to better myself if government gives me everything for free? Money? Just get knocked up and you get child welfare grants. A house? Hell, you can get that for free too. Sure, living conditions aren't great, but to some that is acceptable. This is why we have so many beggars on our streets. Not because they can't find work, but a lot of them because they do not want to work as it is easier to just stand around and chat all day, asking for money.
You are absolutely correct in that people have to want to better themselves, the question is how do you get them to adopt that mindset? The message broadcast by rap and hip-hop - the so-called role-models for the majority of our youth these days - embeds ideas that say you do not have to have an education or even need the ability to speak properly ("The way I r", a song title that annoys the living daylights out of me, comes to mind) in order to become wealthy. This needs to change.

The only way to stop this from perpetuating is to give them the following:

Children under 18 have to attend school (this must be free), full stop. Dire consequences if you are found playing hookey.
For every grade you fail without extenuating circumstances (illness, death of a parent or sibling) you owe the government a year of free labour (transport costs can be covered by gov)
No mark adjusting on racial lines allowed.
If you want a gov bursary to Uni or tech you have to have a pristine school record.
Make begging illegal - if someone is caught giving money to a begger R50 000 fine.
Adults can be offered entry level positions with minimum wage, where they can receive on the job training (this does not have to be gov jobs a deal can be made with the public sector) If you do not accept this you don't get a free gov home you do not get electricity and you do not get water. If you do take the offer you get subsidies where needed and you get trained.

Nothing is for free. You need to earn the things you want. The only way to teach them this is to be harsh. Most of this country is acting like spoiled toddlers, it's time for a butt spanking.

agreed. they're just posturing for the upcoming elections.
knowing that education will be a key issue, it's better to build the perception that the problem isn't their own lack of delivery.
by blaming it on the past, they're basically saying that even if there were a classroom with a good teacher and a set of desks and textbooks, the pupils would still fail, because their parents aren't literate.
this sounds like bs to me, because in situations where pupils have adequate learning resources, they should pass, regardless of their skin colour.
are they not therefore undermining the potential of the children, by saying that the kids should be pushed through, and assuming that they can't do it themselves?

EXACTLY!!!! they are breeding mediocrity and stupidity with their actions.

 

[Polymathic]

I was thikning back to my matric year, I didn't do my projects, pracs and got 0 for my english orals, I only studied for physics the night before and still came out with an exemption and I'm not even that smart.

 

[smokey]

My mother has the equivalent of standard 8 and my old man only has matric. Why has this never limited me?

You do realise that you're not the only person on this planet?

 

[smokey]

The only way to stop this from perpetuating is to give them the following:

1.Children under 18 have to attend school (this must be free), full stop. Dire consequences if you are found playing hookey.
2.For every grade you fail without extenuating circumstances (illness, death of a parent or sibling) you owe the government a year of free labour (transport costs can be covered by gov)
No mark adjusting on racial lines allowed.
If you want a gov bursary to Uni or tech you have to have a pristine school record.
Make begging illegal - if someone is caught giving money to a begger R50 000 fine.
Adults can be offered entry level positions with minimum wage, where they can receive on the job training (this does not have to be gov jobs a deal can be made with the public sector) If you do not accept this you don't get a free gov home you do not get electricity and you do not get water. If you do take the offer you get subsidies where needed and you get trained.

3Nothing is for free. You need to earn the things you want. The only way to teach them this is to be harsh. Most of this country is acting like spoiled toddlers, it's time for a butt spanking.

1. Don't agree at all. While it may need to be free for certain demographics, if you're sending your child to a school in a good area - you should pay for it.

2. warchylde for Basic Education Minister!

3. Totally agree.

 

[Ancalagon]

Where was that article by the SAIRR that proved it was a myth that transformation in higher education has not been successful?

 

[Icarium]

As usual, this is the government approaching equality ass backwards. They do it in government, they do it in the employment sector, they do it on the stock market, they do it in sport. Why should education be any different?

If you want to see equal results at the top level, you need to give equal opportunity at the lowest levels. Sort out your primary education. Sort out your secondary schooling. From there the rest will sort itself out (from simply getting university exemption, through to the entry level job market, building a career, getting into the upper levels of companies and even ownership in enterprises).

But no, what we have now:
- We want black ownership of enterprises? Mandate it by law.
- Want to see a more representative distribution of higher level jobs? Mandate it by law.
- Want to see a more representative distribution of job applicants? Mandate it by law.
- Want to see a more representative distribution of people getting a higher education? Mandate it by law (although we're not quite here yet).

Yet had those in power made ensuring not only the equality, but the quality of our primary education systems thier priority 16 years ago, they would now be seeing exactly the results they wanted, without the need for BEEEE, AA, and whatever other blinkered poicies they are yet to dream up.

 

[warchylde]

1. Don't agree at all. While it may need to be free for certain demographics, if you're sending your child to a school in a good area - you should pay for it.

2. warchylde for Basic Education Minister!

3. Totally agree.

Ok so how about attending public school in your area is free and if you want to attend a better (private) school you have to pay?

 

[unskinnybob]

I'm white... Why no all A's??!

 

[Voicy]

Ok so how about attending public school in your area is free and if you want to attend a better (private) school you have to pay?

Sounds good, but then in order to be free you HAVE to attend the closest one in your area. PTA / community bodies of free schools in their areas will raise funds to improve said schools without everyone wanting a piece of the cake.

 

[warchylde]

Sounds good, but then in order to be free you HAVE to attend the closest one in your area. PTA / community bodies of free schools in their areas will raise funds to improve said schools without everyone wanting a piece of the cake.

Imagine the arms deal money being spent on education in the above manner rather than lining some pockets in gov

 

[Mila]

LOL what? My black mates actually study their asses off.

LIEZ!!!!

Bloody Agent!!



It's a shame that those who work for it and study hard has an Idiot like this speaking for them. Even If they do not like it.
Same as when A poephol like Steve Stofsuier rants.