Boeing engine icing problem hits Jetstar 787 Dreamliner

Ockie

Resident Lead Bender
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
55,087
Reaction score
7,317
Location
Henceforth AKA OckieMoto :-)
art-Jetstar-787-Dreamliner-620x349.jpg

JETSTAR's highly-touted Boeing 787 Dreamliner will not be able to fly near thunderstorms at high altitude because of problems with icing in its high-tech engines.

The problem has also prompted Japan Airlines to delay the introduction of the 787 on the Tokyo-Sydney route next month and JAL has said it will instead use another type of plane.

Boeing on Friday told airlines flying 747-8s and 787s equipped with General Electric engines to avoid flying within 80kms of thunderstorms at high altitude after six aircraft experienced a temporary loss of thrust.

The problem, which affected five 747-8s and one 787 between April and November, was traced to a build-up of ice crystals behind the front fan which subsequently ran through the GEnx engines, a GE spokesman told Reuters. All of the aircraft landed safely.

He said GE and Boeing are working on software modifications to the engine control system which they hope will eliminate the problem.

"The aviation industry is experiencing a growing number of ice-crystal icing encounters in recent years as the population of the large commercial airliners has grown, particularly in tropical regions of the world," he said.

The timing of the warning comes as Australia is in the thunderstorm season on the east coast, where Jetstar is currently operating the aircraft between Melbourne and Queensland.

Jetstar has one 787 in operation and two more are expected to be delivered by the end of the year.

The 787 has suffered a series of high-profile problems and delays, the most serious of which resulted in the global fleet being grounded earlier this year while authorities investigated overheating lithium ion batteries.

Comment is being sought from Jetstar.

Boeing said in its message to airlines that it was prohibiting flight within 50 nautical miles (92.5kms) of all thunderstorms that may contain ice crystals.

''Boeing is working with its customers and GE to address the icing issue,'' it said. ''Only a small number of GEnx engines have experienced the ice crystal icing issue in flight. GE will introduce the improvements necessary to return the engine to expected performance levels.''

''Boeing is disappointed in any impact this situation may have on our customers, as is the GE team. We, like our customers, expect the delivered product to meet all expectations and will work closely with GE to address the subject condition.''

Jetstar said it would follow Boeing's advice.

''We expect this will not have a significant impact on our operations,'' a spokesman said. ''We have been advised that GE are working on a solution and we will follow the recommendations of Boeing or regulators as they arise.''

Separately, Australia's air safety watchdog is investigating a flight deck instrument failure on an Etihad Airbus A330 that prompted the crew to issue a mayday call and return to Brisbane on Thursday.

The Etihad A330-200 was operating flight EY 473 from Brisbane to Singapore with 164 passengers and 11 crew on board when an air speed indicator, and possibly other instruments, failed.

''The flight crew followed all standard operational procedures, declared an emergency, and made a precautionary landing,’’ the airline said. “The aircraft landed without incident and all passengers and crew are safe. Passengers are being rebooked to continue their journey on alternate carriers.''

The Australian Transport safety Bureau confirmed yesterday that it was investigating the incident but said inquiries were still in their early stages.

An incorrectly functioning air speed system contributed to the loss of an Air France A330 flying between Brazil and France in 2009.

- See more at: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...y-e6frg95x-1226767124636#sthash.g5xdGhQX.dpuf

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...787-dreamliners/story-e6frg95x-1226767124636#

It must be said though that engine problems cant really be blamed on Boeing ...no matter how much I want to /grin
 
Wish that Boeing would just drop the whole 787 idea, cut their losses and start moving on to something new. Simply everything just does not seem to want to work for them on this plane....
 
It's taking longer than expected to debug the 787. But when they do it's a winner. Glorious aeroplane, with many innovations that are clearly set be be the norm in commercial aviation in the future.
 
Boeing 787 Engines’ Ice Risk Spurs FAA to Warn Airlines

iRevdIpk6gvw.jpg


U.S. regulators are poised to order airlines to avoid flying Boeing Co. (BA) 787 Dreamliners and 747-8 jumbo jets with General Electric Co. (GE) engines near thunderstorms after some of the planes experienced ice buildup.

A directive due this week is an “interim action” to ensure pilots fly clear of icing conditions that could reduce thrust from GEnx engines, the Federal Aviation Administration said yesterday. The U.S. move follows Japan Airlines Co. (9201)’s decision to shift to other jets from 787s on some Asia routes.


There have been six cases since April of planes with GEnx engines temporarily losing thrust in high-altitude icing conditions, Fairfield, Connecticut-based GE said Nov. 23. Five were with 747-8s and one was with a 787, according to the e-mailed statement.

Japan Air will replace 787 Dreamliners on flights between Tokyo and Delhi with Boeing 777s until Nov. 30, and will switch to 767s on its Tokyo-Singapore route, according to a Nov. 23 statement. The Tokyo-based carrier will make a decision this week on flights past Dec. 1, said Jian Yang, a spokesman.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...-ice-risks-for-ge-powered-787s-in-storms.html
 
Why still gamble with aircraft that pose problems and probably consists of more problems hidden somewhere? Why risk human lives and wait for an accident just to find out what happened and fix it?

Rather scrap the whole dreamliner plane right away. Boeing need some more time to work on that project and I think they should ban the dreamliner for 10+ years and provide this decade to the manufacturer to get things fixed.
 
Why still gamble with aircraft that pose problems and probably consists of more problems hidden somewhere? Why risk human lives and wait for an accident just to find out what happened and fix it?

Rather scrap the whole dreamliner plane right away. Boeing need some more time to work on that project and I think they should ban the dreamliner for 10+ years and provide this decade to the manufacturer to get things fixed.

That would be a financial blow I think Boeing would struggle to absorb .... not to mention what it would likely do to their share price.

Despite the problems ... the 787 is a massively popular airliner with the airlines with big orders on the books.

I just hope the Airbus A350 kicks the 787 in the panty when it goes into commercial service next year.
 
That would be a financial blow I think Boeing would struggle to absorb .... not to mention what it would likely do to their share price.

Despite the problems ... the 787 is a massively popular airliner with the airlines with big orders on the books.

I just hope the Airbus A350 kicks the 787 in the panty when it goes into commercial service next year.

A350 doing really well in the flight testing currently underway.. The 777x is also looking like is going to be a winner so there are interesting times in aviation
 
747-8 is a beaut. Yes, I'm a boeing fan. :D

It is boring. It looks exactly the same as the normal one if you ask me .... except it is a little bigger and the bulge is longer. Sales wise, specially the passenger version, it is a failure if you ask me.

Dont get me wrong ... I am not saying it is not a beautiful plane. The 747 will remain a iconic design .... but I think it was time to move on from this particular design .... and Boeing decided to play it safe.
 
A350 doing really well in the flight testing currently underway.. The 777x is also looking like is going to be a winner so there are interesting times in aviation

The 777X gonna be coming into service way after the A350 though ... so I hope this gives the A350 the headstart. Not that it needs it really. Sales have been going very well.....specially considering JAL in Japan having been a die hard Boeing fan now deciding to order Airbus. :D
 
Boeing has really fallen on hard times with 787. If A350 shows up and turns out successful, then boeing will in big trouble. They just need to sort this mess out.
 
There is always the chance though that when the A350 starts normal service it too can have issues similar to those being faced by the 787. Unfortunately some things only come up post testing. ..
 
There is always the chance though that when the A350 starts normal service it too can have issues similar to those being faced by the 787. Unfortunately some things only come up post testing. ..

It is possible ...... but I hope this does not happen. Also ...... there is a difference between having a issue here and there .... and being plagued by problems. The A380 for example did not have a string of issues like the 787 is having ... and that plane was a literally designed from scratch! Only big issues I know of was he engine problem (which I say rests with Rolls, not Airbus) and the micro cracks in the wings which have been rectified and with a permanent fix being implemented in the factory next year.
 
When will we see commercial airliners use real jet propulsion instead of turbofan engines?
 
It is possible ...... but I hope this does not happen. Also ...... there is a difference between having a issue here and there .... and being plagued by problems. The A380 for example did not have a string of issues like the 787 is having ... and that plane was a literally designed from scratch! Only big issues I know of was he engine problem (which I say rests with Rolls, not Airbus) and the micro cracks in the wings which have been rectified and with a permanent fix being implemented in the factory next year.

Most definitely...I too am keen for the success of the A350 and hope they also bring out the stretched version. Will be interesting to see if Airbus offer the stretched A380. . Aside from Emirates there doesn't seem to be as strong demand for it though. Conjecture online is that the huge 50 plane order will lead to engine updates as well
 
When will we see commercial airliners use real jet propulsion instead of turbofan engines?

Not soon. turbofans are quieter & more efficient than turbojets at the speeds airliners operate at. You are also not gonna see Mach 1+ airliners due to the noise & sonic booms, Concorde got endless flack for this.
 
Not soon. turbofans are quieter & more efficient than turbojets at the speeds airliners operate at. You are also not gonna see Mach 1+ airliners due to the noise & sonic booms, Concorde got endless flack for this.

Hell, i wouldnt mind being on a commercial aircraft that can reach speeds of Mach 1+, I would love it.
 
Not soon. turbofans are quieter & more efficient than turbojets at the speeds airliners operate at. You are also not gonna see Mach 1+ airliners due to the noise & sonic booms, Concorde got endless flack for this.

Ja ....turbojets would struggle to be economical enough. It would make airtravel way to expensive .... specially at the fuel prices at the moment. If anything .... we might move away from Turbofan engines to Propfan engines. I heard Airbus patented a design last year of a design that would allow the mounting of Propfan engines. I do think noise is still a issue with these engines however.


Nasa_ge_udf.jpg


MD-81_N980DC_GE36_UDF_0809.jpg
 
Last edited:
It is boring. It looks exactly the same as the normal one if you ask me .... except it is a little bigger and the bulge is longer. Sales wise, specially the passenger version, it is a failure if you ask me.

Dont get me wrong ... I am not saying it is not a beautiful plane. The 747 will remain a iconic design .... but I think it was time to move on from this particular design .... and Boeing decided to play it safe.

Ockie, you've insulted the queen. The queen of the fscking SKIES!

How does that make you feel? :p
 
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X