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Question of the Day: What's the most interesting small town you've visited in South Africa?
Brett Kebble...
- Thread starter Bravestar
- Start date
GavinMannion
Executive Member
Look into Glen Agliotti has well....
I don't think anything has been confirmed for either of them though?
Also do some research on Billy Rautenbach, nothing has been mentioned between these two but they are both into mining and both seem to have been or are criminals.....
I don't think anything has been confirmed for either of them though?
Also do some research on Billy Rautenbach, nothing has been mentioned between these two but they are both into mining and both seem to have been or are criminals.....
Weird question...But do you think Brett Kebble can have an effect on SA trade Market....?
fivelza
Expert Member
Weird question...But do you think Brett Kebble can have an effect on SA trade Market....?
What is the SA Trade Market?
Try www.moneyweb.co.za as well.
fivelza
Expert Member
Let me rephrase...
Will the Brett Kebble Scandal have an effect on SA like ENRON did on US???
No need to apologise..
Hmmm, Enron was a whole lot bigger than Randgold/JCI so in terms of impact the Kebble saga will still have an impact but not nearly as catastrophic. We still do not know who else was involved i.e. in the Enron case Anderson (accounting firm) also went down.
Anything like this will shake investor confidence especially as Randgold was listed in the US, so it could result in international investors being even more jittery when they invest in an emerging market such as South Africa.
No need to apologise..
Anything like this will shake investor confidence especially as Randgold was listed in the US, so it could result in international investors being even more jittery when they invest in an emerging market such as South Africa.
Thats what a though..
Do you know who where Brett Kebbles auditors?
fivelza
Expert Member
Common misconception about audit/accounting firms that they should and will find the fraud, in most of the cases they never do.
Brett Kebble won't be audited but his companies will. I think from the press that I have read PWC, KPMG and Charles Orbach were auditors at one or other stage.
I know its not their job to find the fraud but this was huge, should have been going on for many years...
If the auditing firms can't find the fraud, who's left?
Hi Bravestar,
The Kebble story is actually incredibly complicated. I was looking to do a case study on it in a training programme. However, I gave up since it was just too involved to explain in a couple of pages. If you can piece together a story from the new articles go for it. Perhaps that is why Kebble was able to last for so long, since no one quite knew what was going on.
What I do know, is that it involved share issues, from both Rand Gold and Equity and its sister company JCI to buy fictional assets. In one case, shares were issued to buy an assets that RG&E already owned. In some cases shares supposedly 'swapped' ie. RG&E sold Randgold Resources (RRL) and DRD Gold shares for Western Areas shares. The RRL and DRD shares were secretly sold while the Western Areas shares weren't received.
Essentially, Kebble seemed to have used RG&E as a personal looting ground, while adding little value to it.
I know Roy Seargant has written a book on Kebble, you might want to buy it and start there.
Just to affirm, the Auditors were indeed PWC.
As to the question 'Will Kebble have the same effect as Enron?"
The simple answer is 'No'. Enron among others (including Worldcom and Tyco) gave rise to the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which is having a noticable effect on the way business is done (Sections 404 and 302 regarding internal control are frightening to any CEO or CFO since they have to make a personal assurance that they know exactly what is happening in the business, which can result in criminal charges).
Also, as Fivelza said, Enron bought down Arthur Anderson overnight. PWC might be a bit embarressed, but its reputation doesn't seem to have suffered too much.
South Africa already has the King Report and is drafting the new Companies Act, both of which are not reactionary documents (The King II report (2002) was drafted before Kebble and the Companies Act, while being drafted merely takes from best practices around the world).
Any affect Kebble would have had on capital or trade flows would already have been felt. Markets react quickly, and it seems as if Kebble had no lasting effect.
The Kebble story is actually incredibly complicated. I was looking to do a case study on it in a training programme. However, I gave up since it was just too involved to explain in a couple of pages. If you can piece together a story from the new articles go for it. Perhaps that is why Kebble was able to last for so long, since no one quite knew what was going on.
What I do know, is that it involved share issues, from both Rand Gold and Equity and its sister company JCI to buy fictional assets. In one case, shares were issued to buy an assets that RG&E already owned. In some cases shares supposedly 'swapped' ie. RG&E sold Randgold Resources (RRL) and DRD Gold shares for Western Areas shares. The RRL and DRD shares were secretly sold while the Western Areas shares weren't received.
Essentially, Kebble seemed to have used RG&E as a personal looting ground, while adding little value to it.
I know Roy Seargant has written a book on Kebble, you might want to buy it and start there.
Just to affirm, the Auditors were indeed PWC.
As to the question 'Will Kebble have the same effect as Enron?"
The simple answer is 'No'. Enron among others (including Worldcom and Tyco) gave rise to the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which is having a noticable effect on the way business is done (Sections 404 and 302 regarding internal control are frightening to any CEO or CFO since they have to make a personal assurance that they know exactly what is happening in the business, which can result in criminal charges).
Also, as Fivelza said, Enron bought down Arthur Anderson overnight. PWC might be a bit embarressed, but its reputation doesn't seem to have suffered too much.
South Africa already has the King Report and is drafting the new Companies Act, both of which are not reactionary documents (The King II report (2002) was drafted before Kebble and the Companies Act, while being drafted merely takes from best practices around the world).
Any affect Kebble would have had on capital or trade flows would already have been felt. Markets react quickly, and it seems as if Kebble had no lasting effect.
Telkom is our Enron, creating shortages where there are none to feed the machine, just like Enron did on the US west coast with power.
Bravestar, get Barry Sergeant's book called 'Brett Kebble: The Inside Story'.
If that is to much for your research purposes read the many articles Barry has written on Moneyweb.co.za relating to this issue.
Barry writes the Fear and Loathing column/blog
http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page84
Search for his his stuff.
Bravestar, get Barry Sergeant's book called 'Brett Kebble: The Inside Story'.
If that is to much for your research purposes read the many articles Barry has written on Moneyweb.co.za relating to this issue.
Barry writes the Fear and Loathing column/blog
http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page84
Search for his his stuff.