BSC.Computing Vs Masters in Informatics

[rhdr0011]

If you got an Unisa bsc honours in informatics what is better to do from there?
- Either a masters in informatics,
- OR to get started with a bsc in computing(to get the maths and more advance programming) and then move on to a honours in computing?

Which route will give you better job security and or better pay?

(Technically you dont get a bsc honours in informatics its called bsc computing honours but you focus only on the informatics side of that degree - in my opinion they could have split it because you cant do most computing modules with an informatics background)

 

[Messugga]

What do you wish to achieve through an honours in computing?
Why do you say you can't do most of the modules with an informatics background?

 

[rhdr0011]

What do you wish to achieve through an honours in computing?
Why do you say you can't do most of the modules with an informatics background?

My goal is to get enough knowledge and know how that I would be indispensable to any IT employer and eventual have the option to start my own business once I have the experience.
So far my studies have been invaluable to my current job, but I feel that cs maths could take me to the next level but I am not sure if it would be worth more to rather continue on to a masters informatics degree.

In the cs honours there is subjects like artificial intelligence, machine learning, formal logic, logic based reasoning, natural language processing, ect that you need bsc computing degree for and where informatics is not enough.

Inevitability I need to put the bread on the table and want to make sure that I have the highest chance of being hired even in tough market conditions

 

[Sinbad]

Your knowledge won't make you indispensible. There are any number of people out there who know more than you.

Your attitude and work ethic will make you indispensible. And this, in itself, is not a desirable end - as if you are indispensible in your current job you will never be promoted out of it.

 

[Ancalagon]

You're thinking about this wrong.

Before you decide what to study next, first decide on what you want to do. What role do you want? In 10 years time, when you get an award for how awesome you are, what should that award be for? For writing the most kick ass algorithm? For delivering the project on time and on budget? For analysing the business case and realizing you could save the business 50% of the cost?

When you know what you want to do, you can decide what to study to help you get there.

I may even recommend that you get an internship position or an actual job before you decide what to study. At the moment, I don't think you have enough information to make a good decision.

 

[Messugga]

My goal is to get enough knowledge and know how that I would be indispensable to any IT employer and eventual have the option to start my own business once I have the experience.
So far my studies have been invaluable to my current job, but I feel that cs maths could take me to the next level but I am not sure if it would be worth more to rather continue on to a masters informatics degree.

In the cs honours there is subjects like artificial intelligence, machine learning, formal logic, logic based reasoning, natural language processing, ect that you need bsc computing degree for and where informatics is not enough.

Inevitability I need to put the bread on the table and want to make sure that I have the highest chance of being hired even in tough market conditions

I've done the computing honours degree. Unless they expressly indicate the requirement of a B.Sc CS, I'd say you're jumping to some conclusions there.
Formal program verification had some fairly tough math (for me, someone that last did varsity math a good 5 years before doing said module) but I suspect the lecturer doesn't even get it. Dreadful module.

AI and machine learning had no real math requirements, just a good head on your shoulders.

Also, honours in computing on top of informatics honours, isn't going to impress many people. A masters would be more valuable. End of the day it's about what you can do though.

 

[rhdr0011]

Thanks for your replies, it gave me a lot to think about. I still got a while to go before I get there though but it would seem that it would be better to try out the job market and then decide from there what to do next.
(With the Unisa computing hounours they strongly advise you not to take computing modules if you only got informatics but they dont formally restrict you though...but I suspect that it will be extremely difficult if you don't have the right background)

 

[cguy]

You have a bit of a chicken and the egg situation here. I would say that it is absolutely worth doing CS and maths and CS honours, etc. if you are actually going to use it. Of course, you are far more likely to use it if you actually have the qualification.

The only real way out of the dilemma is to really figure out what you want to be doing for your career - this is non-trivial since until you will only have a better idea once you do the work.

Being indispensable isn't really a good argument - as Sinbad said, much of what makes you indispensable will come out of how you do your job.

Some high level issues:
- Where do you want to work? If you want to stay in SA, there are far fewer opportunities that need a CS/computing degree. If you really want to go to Silicon Valley, or such, getting a CS background is worth it (personally I think it is still "worth it" for most people generally, but probably not if you already have an honours/masters informatics degree).
- What kind of work do you find interesting? Algorithms, maths, CS theory, compilers, ML? If you really know that you want to work at this kind of technical level, then perhaps going the CS/computing path is best.
- Do you see yourself as a career developer? If not, I think what you have will get you to the business side or management side of many businesses, so CS/computing isn't worth it. If you want to start your own business, will it be generic software development, or do you want to build something around new technology you've developed? The latter would benefit from a CS/computing degree, but would also require that you are exceptionally talented in this area to really compete.

I do agree with what Messugga said about having 2x degrees rather than a masters and/or PhD. From the perspective of an outsider reading your resume it may look as though you didn't have focus, or weren't capable of taking a subject to the masters level (I know one or two career students who have 3-4 degrees, but no masters for this exact reason - 4 degrees and not particularly bright).

I do shudder to think of what an ML course that doesn't need maths looks like. Regardless of whether it is a requirement for a particular module, if you want to something ML or data science related at the postgrad level or for your career, maths and stats is highly recommended.

 

[Messugga]

+1 on the above. Math and, it seems particularly stats, is worth a hell of a lot when it comes to data science and similar fields, that seem to be trending upwards in popularity, at the moment.
I'm looking into doing my masters with a focus on data science/ML at Tuks next year. Maybe PhD after that, somewhere overseas.

Big corporates are trying to get hold of these skills for risk modelling (the telcos, the banks, insurance companies, etc.) and working with their actuaries.

 

[rhdr0011]

This is very interesting.
If your employability and value to a company depends on how you do your work and on what you can do, I am starting to think that the cs will give me more ability and confidence. But so might non-degree subjects in maths and/or short courses related to cs.
Then again if I want ml then I might as well enroll for cs rather than taking a ton of non-degree subjects...

By the sound of it the masters might give me more interviews but I'm not sure how it works and if I will truly be able to do more once I completed it. Doing the masters will then probably depend on how many interviews and offers I get once I send out my cv. Also I can always complete this later on...

 

[Messugga]

Okay, I've been in this industry for a while, I've done a bunch of interviews and I've seen how people perform.
The most competent technical people I have personally worked with, would've been valuable assets to an organisation whether they did a degree or not. Why? Because they have a passion for the subject matter and skilled themselves up in their own time, by doing their own projects.
I don't know ANY good programmers that didn't look at any form of code before they started their degrees.

Doesn't matter how many degrees you have, if you show up at Amazon for an interview and can't pass their tests (you won't, based purely on what you've learned from university), you won't get an offer.
For entry level positions, they'll only care whether you have a degree. Having two or more, isn't likely to suddenly make you a senior developer. They'll put you in the same pool as everybody else with zero working experience,until you've proven that you don't belong there.

 

[rhdr0011]

Alright then what type of projects is worth getting into, are you talking about big open-source coding, creating games in your free time or trying to get work before you continue your studies?
Is it worth studying further at all then if you got a degree as appose to getting into the work market?

(currently I'm busy building an accounting/managing db for a real estate company and the rest of the time I study)

 

[Messugga]

Alright then what type of projects is worth getting into, are you talking about big open-source coding, creating games in your free time or trying to get work before you continue your studies?
Is it worth studying further at all then if you got a degree as appose to getting into the work market?

(currently I'm busy building an accounting/managing db for a real estate company and the rest of the time I study)

Depends what you want to actually end up doing.
If you want to write code for a living, then frankly, anything. Small projects, large projects, doesn't matter. Making meaningful contributions to open source projects is always a good sign, but it can be intimidating to get going.
Is it worth studying further? That also depends on what you want to actually end up doing. Only you'll be able to answer it.

All I'm saying is, qualifications don't matter as much as solid experience, at least initially. If you want to become say... a coder/designer for a high frequency trading system, the guys doing the hiring will probably want to see something like a PhD in math.
The jobs requiring that sort of qualification just to get them to even consider you, are fairly rare in SA though and normally are aimed at people with a good amount of experience as well.