Building Nightmare

[nightjar]

My sister has had a terrible experience with a renovation "done" to her house by long time friends who claim to do upmarket renovations and trade as Mooi Interior Concepts or Fine Line Studio.

The job consisted of converting a dressing room to an en-suite shower/toilet and renovating the kitchen and removing some of the wall separating it from the dining room and was paid for up front.

A three week job (by any decent building standards) was started in mid May and five months later is still not complete.

The labourers were all unfailingly polite and good at their respective jobs and she never had any complaint about the quality of the work but the management of the project was non existent.

The brickwork was done in a few days and then the job dragged on because the workers were only on site about one day in five - I would guess that they were doing other jobs funded be her payment.

The original quote detailing the kitchen work was later rewritten in an attempt to extort additional funds but she stood firm in this regard.

By prior agreement her sink was to be reinstalled and there was no reason why it should not have been but she lost out here and was forced to buy another for R10K - available from Builders Warehouse for R899.

She canceled of one part of the job and asked for a refund but has been met with a stony silence.

I could go on and on but this is the essence and I would be interested in knowing who else has had a bad experience by dealing with Mooi Interior Concepts or Fine Line Studio

 

[Mars]

R10k for a sink :wtf:

Did she actually pay this?

 

[satanboy]

...but the management of the project was non existent...
because the workers were only on site about one day in five...

Those two issues almost always seem to be my problem with builders.

 

[maumau]

If I were your sister I'd forget about the money, forget about the friends and get someone else in to finish the job. Are you in joburg?

 

[ToxicBunny]

This seems to unfortunately be standard practice when dealing with builders....

ESP friends who are builders.

Its one of the reasons I've started learning how to do this stuff myself, so when it comes to actually doing reno's at home, I can do most if not all the project management and supply sourcing myself.

 

[D3x!]

Full payment up front? That is asking for trouble!

 

[The_Unbeliever]

Full payment up front? That is asking for trouble!

Eee-yep. Now they don't have any incentive to do the building any more.

Best to get a lawyery type involved, if she so wishes, or write the money off and get somebody else.

 

[silentbee]

Advice from an architect: ALWAYS sign a contract! The JBCC Minor Works Agreement is ideal for these sorts of little projects. And paying up front is crazy behaviour...

 

[Ekstasis]

Advice from an architect: ALWAYS sign a contract! The JBCC Minor Works Agreement is ideal for these sorts of little projects. And paying up front is crazy behaviour...

Adding to this, also make sure your builder is registered with the NHBRC. This gives you a foot to stand on in case you have trouble with quality of workmanship.
When choosing a builder, get references - at least 3
A project manager should always be on site and update you daily with the progress of the day.

 

[Dolby]

Advice from an architect: ALWAYS sign a contract! The JBCC Minor Works Agreement is ideal for these sorts of little projects. And paying up front is crazy behaviour...

What about a 50% deposit or so?

I'm not doing any renovating ; but would be nice to know for future

 

[ToxicBunny]

Personally, no..

10% deposit, and payments at specific milestones in the project.
If they come with the 50% deposit to buy the materials.. I get wary.

 

[Milano]

The quickest way to end a friendship is by doing business with friends. The quickest way to become annoyed with siblings is by trying to fix their mistakes.

 

[Mars]

Adding to this, also make sure your builder is registered with the NHBRC. This gives you a foot to stand on in case you have trouble with quality of workmanship.
When choosing a builder, get references - at least 3
A project manager should always be on site and update you daily with the progress of the day.

NHBRC aint worth crap. We have tried to take action against a builder that put a poor foundation in a townhouse we once owned. Any prick who pays the fees can be a member.
They will make a half arsed attempt at reconciliation between you and the builder, but if that doesn't work out you have to take legal action yourself.

 

[The_Unbeliever]

What about a 50% deposit or so?

I'm not doing any renovating ; but would be nice to know for future

Personally, no..

10% deposit, and payments at specific milestones in the project.
If they come with the 50% deposit to buy the materials.. I get wary.

Same. No can do.

Any builder worth his salt will know what he's doing - and be very careful because he might lose his money.

Builders asking for deposits of 50% and more only care about the money - no matter how shoddy the job...

 

[silentbee]

What about a 50% deposit or so?

Payment guarantees from the employer to the contractor are better. And the contractor should provide a construction guarantee, failing which money can be held back from each monthly payment. This is called retention. This way both parties have security that they will get paid money due to them, or receive the workmanship due.

Materials and workmanship are only paid for upon receipt. If your contractor doesn;t have the cash-flow to pay for a few dozen sqaure meters of tiles or a kitchen sink, then it might be better to look for another one.

Alternatively *you* can purchase those items directly and issue them to the contractor. Why should he get paid up front to buy stuff that he's going to charge you a premium on? Generally a contractor will charge a percentage on top of what he pays for an item -- admin fees, management and handling fees, and profit. And what leverage do you have to get him to re-do work that's not of an acceptable standard?

On that note, establish the standard of workmanship you expect up front.

NHBRC aint worth crap.

True story. Contractors can pay slightly more to become a gold member. It's fairly meaningless. Insurance companies might insist on it through, and I'd still recommend going with the NHBRC guy over anyone else. If nothing else is showa that they've made the effort and can fill in forms correctly...

 

[silentbee]

Two more things:

On deposits:

If deposits cannot be avoided it is essential for building professionals to thoroughly appraise the Employer of both the extent and the duration of the risk exposure. If the Employer refuses to accept the risk, then, quite simply, this subcontractor or supplier cannot be appointed, unless as a Direct Subcontractor. The risk to the Employer can be minimised by obtaining a Bank Guarantee from the subcontractor equal to the deposit required, which is then released once value of site has been achieved equal to or more than the deposit. This is the best possible protection to the employer under the circumstances. Again, "in the real world", this is often unobtainable, as it is costly and burdensome for the subcontractor.

And I found a link to a copy of the JBCC Minor Works Agreement. It's a document that you have to buy, so I'm not sure that printing that one out and using it would be a good idea.

 

[DanH]

The only way to deal with builders is with a contract with draw amounts payable at different stages of completion. Make sure the last draw is after completion of the snag list.

Its also a good idea to buy finishing items such as tiles, kitchen/bathroom fittings, paint, lights, etc yourself to ensure a high standard of finish.

Its best to get yourself a diy building book and familiarise yourself with the process. Then visit the site daily to make sure shortcuts are not being taken and they are not messing.

 

[nightjar]

Thanks for all the responses and suggestions.
It took many weeks for the realization to sink in that her friends had abused her trust.

A very expensive lesson.

Maybe something for Hellopeter.com