Buying a Bluray HT Surround System

[NielJoubert]

Hi people

I am thinking of buying a bluray surround sound system.

My budget is below any PS3 + decent Speaker combo around R3000, maybe R4000. It must include the player and speakers, obviously.

I hope this thread can go on for a while, because I have to save some money / pay my credit card off...

My room isn't too big at all, but the more sound, the better. I would prefer clarity over volume.

I am planning to connect my Xbox (HDMI and optical OR Component and optical), TV (HDMI), TopTV decoder (RCA cables), HDD recorder (HDMI OR RCA), the occasional laptop (HDMI or LAN) or external HDD/Flash disc.

The TopTV can be connected to just the TV as well.


I saw this in a pamphlet somewhere: Samsung HT-C5500 for R3300.

The manual can be found here: Manual

Connections: 1 x SPDIF input - Rear, 1 x Audio line-in, 1 x Composite video output - Rear, 1 x Component video output - Rear, 1 x HDMI output - Rear, 2 x HDMI input - Rear, USB, Ethernet

Also is 1000W and all the needed surround sound processing. The only thing it doesn't have is the its not 3D capable for later on...

I haven't seen any other deals around, so any advice and comment would be good.

EDIT: Features list

• Region Free Player! Play DVD and Blu Ray from any and all regions for Blu Ray and DVD
• Playback of regular (standard definition) PAL or NTSC DVDs from all regions:
• Regions 1,2,3,4,5,6,8. Region Code Chart by Country
• Playback of Blu-Ray DVDs PAL or NTSC from all regions A, B, C. Region Code Chart by Country
• Important Notes:
• To play PAL DVD or PAL Blu Ray you must have a PAL TV or Multi System TV or our CMD-RF1080p HD Converter. Get R216.98 off on the converter when you buy a Blu Ray DVD Player. Must buy at same time.
• To play NTSC DVD or NTSC Blu Ray you must have a NTSC TV or Multi System TV or our CMD-RF1080p HD Converter. Get R216.98 off on the converter when you buy a Blu Ray DVD Player. Must buy at same time.
• Plays Blu-ray high-definition discs with selectable output resolution of 1080p signals available through HDMI only or 720p/1080i signals available through HDMI or component video.
• Plays Any region Blu Ray, DVD-Video, DVD-R & DVD-RW, and DVD+R & DVD+RW
• Also plays DiVX, MKV, AVCHD, BD-ROM and BD-R & BD-RE, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW, MP3 on CD-R/CD-RW, JPEG
• MKV (DiVX HD) - Plays high definition DiVX files also known as MKV format
• World Wide Voltage 100-240 Volts 50/60 Hertz
• 2 USB ports (1 front, 1 rear) for storing downloaded BD-Live material
• Internet-ready — plays TV shows, movies, music and social media updates from a number of sources, including Netflix, Blockbuster, Face book, YouTube, Twitter, Flicker, Pandora, and more (subscription required for Netflix and Blockbuster service)
• BD-Live Ready - requires 1GB USB memory drive
• AllShare™ feature lets you connect to other DLNA-certified devices to share media
• built-in audio decoding for Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, and multi-channel uncompressed PCM
• built-in audio decoding for Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD and DTS-HD Master Audio Essential
• multichannel PCM output via HDMI
• bit stream output for Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD and DTS-HD Master Audio
• BD-Java interactive capability
• Built-in 1GB memory for downloadable bonus content: The BD-C5500 also supports the "Bonus View" material found on some Blu-ray movies for picture-in-picture directors' commentaries and behind-the-scenes footage. Connect the player to your broadband Internet connection to access "BD-Live" — potential bonus features ranging from online games to downloadable movie trailers. The 'C5500 gives you 1GB of built-in flash memory for saving downloaded content. If you need more space, just plug a thumb drive into one of the player's two USB ports.
• Selectable 720p/1080i/1080p video up-conversion for DVD (upconverted video available through HDMI output only)
• HDMI digital output (combines video and multichannel audio with HDCP copy protection)
• HDMI version 1.3 with x.v.Color support
• HD 1080p: Enjoy lifelike, vivid visuals and crystal-clear details with full high definition 1080p resolution.
• CD / DVD Playback: This blu-ray disc player offers state-of-the-art viewing with CD and DVD playback compatibility. Even as you take advantage of the latest video and audio advances, you can still enjoy all your existing media content.
• Built-in Ethernet Connection: BD profile 2.0 interactivity lets you download the latest firmware upgrades and more with just a click of a button. Making firmware upgrades simple and easy, you can continually upgrade the BD-C5500 with the latest features.
• Wi-Fi capable with optional USB adapter
• Variable Black Level (Setup): 0 and 7.5 IRE
• 2X DVD read speed; 4X CD/CD-R/CD-RW read speed; with 8MB drive buffer memory
• 24/96 compatible digital outputs - optical and coaxial
• Anamorphic Scaling for 4:3/16:9 Sets
• 4:3 Squeeze and Zoom Controls, including HDMI outputs
• Pure Direct Modes to defeat unneeded portions of player for the ultimate in audio performance
• SRS TruSurround
• Remote in/out ports
• GloKey remote control
• Dolby Digital / DTS for 5.1 Channel Surround Sound
• Picture CD Playback with Display:
• CDs with pictures, both Picture CD and JPEG types can be viewed. The images can be zoomed, rotated, flipped and scanned.
• MP3 Compatibility:
• Provides full MP3 compatibility, including Fast Forward, Rewind and Special Playback functions, MP3 Navigation Display, playback of discs with both MP3 and JPEG files, and MP3 Multi-session compatibility.

 

[Penquin]

Well, I was going to say that you won't find a surround sound system with DTS-HD and Dolby True HD, (which is the general audio of BR discs), at that price, but then I checked your link and saw the little Samsung HTiB actually does decode those formats. So at that price I'm guessing it could be a good buy.

 

[OverKill69]

It's really tricky buying surround sound systems on a budget... you have to sacrifice quality (something I cringe at) for budget.


I haven't heard this Samsung system, so I can't comment specifically on it... but I can guess since I've heard systems in the same sort of bracket.

unfortunately, you will not hear any real difference between DVD quality sound and Blu-Ray sound on a system like this. The processing bit rate per channel and the size of the speakers just aren't up to the task.
The REAL difference between Dolby Digital and Dolby TruSurround is in the dynamic range at higher volumes. The increased bit rate per channel allows for much higher detail and depth. Unfortunately, the processor needs to be able to be capable of that sort of bit rate on ALL CHANNELS, the Samsung isn't. You can tell by the 96/24 rating is available for JUST stereo on the specifications.
That's 96kbits and 24bit processing...
Now Blu-Ray sound is up to 196kbs and 24 bit processing FOR EVERY CHANNEL.

EDIT: PS I just noticed the system does not include an ACTIVE SUBWOOFER. which means it's capable of playing the discreet subwoofer channels. All the sub will do is play everything bellow 200Hz.
So it's not even proper 5.1

Sure the processor will decode the Dolby TruSurround or the DTS-MA, but what you're actually getting out of the speakers is normal DTS or Dolby.

The speakers are also too small to properly harness the increased sensitivity of the Blu-Ray signals. Speakers are designed to recreate sounds by creating pressure waves. A speaker needs a certain amount of cabinet volume to recreate these pressure waves faithfully to the original recording track.
ie. a 1000Hz signal at -20db played through the speakers should be recorded as a 1000Hz signal at -20db by a microphone placed in the listening position of the room.
The smaller the speakers, the less accurate they will be at recreating the recorded signals.
So a 1000Hz signal at -20db will be recorded as a 9899Hz signal at -25dB by the mic at the listening position.

So the speakers are also not capable of revealing the increased quality of the higher quality sound recording of a blu-ray recording.


If this is THE FIRST SURROUND SOUND system you're buying, then it will work beautifully. It plays everything and it's priced well.
If this isn't the 1st system you're buying and you have another lying around... then I wouldn't go for it.
You'd be spending another R3k for the privilege listening to sound of no better sound quality to what you got at the moment.

Rather spend the cash on a good RECEIVER component and use your existing speakers. Then later, buy better quality speakers.
You'll need to shop around, but you can find a decent amplifier with decent processing and quality for around R3k.

Look on this website: http://hfxsystems.co.za/
They sometimes have FANTASTIC deals in their second hand section. Usually floor demos that go on sale. You could pick up a R9000 amplifier for R3000.


If yo have a system where you're plugging in your PS3 and are getting surround sound right now... then I WOULD NOT BUY THIS OTHER SYSTEM. it won't benefit you in any way.
Rather save your cash, and get something of higher quality further down the line.

 

[stevenv]

I have that specific system. Bought it a couple weeks ago and must say that in general I'm impressed. Not really an audiophile so decided against paying at least three times the price for HDMI inputs which was my primary reason for upgrading my old system. I would consider this system an "advanced all-in-one" i.e. somewhere between buying a pro system with real AV receiver and buying a mainstream HTiB. Sound reproduction is fairly decent on this system although the sub is a little on the small side and turning it up can produce some distortion (I think more from the enclosure than the actual speaker). I will say that even at low levels bass is fairly reasonable and honestly I don't want to make enemies of my neighbours. The satellite speakers are reasonable although made from plastic so not quite the same as professional ones in terms of sound quality. They have a very nice piano black finish that must be cleaned with a special cloth (provided) to prevent scratches i.e. don't leave it to the domestic. The unit itself is very sleek, also finished the same as the speakers. Controls are touch sensitive which is cool but a pain when installing (can accidentally turn on and off). As I mentioned, has two HDMI inputs from which audio is decoded and played through the speakers and video passed to the single HDMI output. Also has an iPod dock that support most models and can be controlled through on-screen menu. Supports wireless speakers and WiFi connection, neither supported out-the-box i.e. have to buy additional hardware or Samsung-specific wireless dongle. Does have an Ethernet port which I understand supports DLNA streaming but I haven't used it (using PS3 for that). Also has single optical input if you have another digital source that you want to process audio from.

I am planning to connect my Xbox (sorry guys) (HDMI and optical OR Component and optical), TV (HDMI), TopTV decoder (RCA cables), HDD recorder (HDMI OR RCA), the occasional laptop (HDMI or LAN) or external HDD/Flash disc.

That's quite a lot of hardware, not 100% sure if this unit will work for you. You could connect the Xbox to one HDMI input and the HDD recorder to the other. TV would obviously connect to HDMI output. You could also connect the audio output on the TopTV decoder to either the stereo or optical input on the HT (and output video straight from the decoder to an input on the TV) although this would require switching inputs on TV and HT. Not sure what you need the laptop connection for but I think externals and flash drives can be connected to front USB (if I remember, I think it does have). This is all theory

 

[stevenv]

@OverKill69: I was looking at buying a proper system but I figured that (1) I'm not an audiophile, (2) my lounge is fairly small and (3) my neighbours will hate me. If I lived in a mansion or larger house I would've invested but for your average joe that needs HDMI inputs with "adequate" sound and is on a budget, I would consider this system.

 

[NielJoubert]

If this is THE FIRST SURROUND SOUND system you're buying, then it will work beautifully. It plays everything and it's priced well.

This is my first system. I am planning to upgrade when I move into my own house some time (3years probably). I just want to be able to watch Bluray and have decent sound for now.

If yo have a system where you're plugging in your PS3 and are getting surround sound right now... then I WOULD NOT BUY THIS OTHER SYSTEM.

I am planning on using this system to connect my Xbox to for 5.1 sound via optical.

Thanks for the detailed input.

I know the difference a proper receiver and speakers can make, my stepmom is kind of an audiophile. Bought a R20k system a while back.

That kind of system is for when Im grown up and have that type of money to spend

 

[OverKill69]

@OverKill69: I was looking at buying a proper system but I figured that (1) I'm not an audiophile, (2) my lounge is fairly small and (3) my neighbours will hate me. If I lived in a mansion or larger house I would've invested but for your average joe that needs HDMI inputs with "adequate" sound and is on a budget, I would consider this system.

No worries...
I'm just making the point that you don't hear ANY difference upgrading from DVD sound to Blu-Ray sound on a system like this. So effectively, there's no increase in sound quality for money spent.

This is my first system. I am planning to upgrade when I move into my own house some time (3years probably). I just want to be able to watch Bluray and have decent sound for now.



I am planning on using this system to connect my Xbox to for 5.1 sound via optical.

Thanks for the detailed input.

I know the difference a proper receiver and speakers can make, my stepmom is kind of an audiophile. Bought a R20k system a while back.

That kind of system is for when Im grown up and have that type of money to spend

Dude... then that is 100%
I read through the manual you attached... and I think for an initial system, this guy is packed with features.

Hehehe... we all have to start somewhere! careful! because before you know it, you'll be bitten by the bug and you'll be buying sound equipment before groceries!

If yoy have more that 2x HDMI components that you'd like to attach, look into something like this: http://www.hdcabling.co.za/3x1-3-input-ports-manual-hdmi-switch-push-button-type-p-81.html
I bought one when I had a non HDMI receiver. Not the same brand, but the same concept.
I got it from a major DSTV installation outlet. It's a 3 input 1 output HDMI switch. It wasn't that pricey either, around R400 about 2 years ago.
So you can plug in 3 HDMI components to the switch and then the one output goes to the one input of your Samsung. So BOOM, 4 HDMI inputs! it's also HDCP compliant.

The one I got was a "Labgear" worked like a charm.
I had my PC, a DVD player, my PS3 and my HDPVR connected. (I'd have to unplug my PVR to plug in my PS3 every time I wanted to jol)

 

[stevenv]

No worries...
I'm just making the point that you don't hear ANY difference upgrading from DVD sound to Blu-Ray sound on a system like this. So effectively, there's no increase in sound quality for money spent.

Depends I had a ~6 year old Samsung HT system that I replaced and I'm pretty sure the sound is better ... maybe it's just psychological ...

 

[OverKill69]

Depends I had a ~6 year old Samsung HT system that I replaced and I'm pretty sure the sound is better ... maybe it's just psychological ...

I read the manual that NielJoubert linked to.

The specifications for the amplifier and the speakers are all in there.

Objectively speaking, before we start talking "sounds better", because that would be subjective to everyone's different opinion.

1) Like I mentioned earlier. The amp only does 96/24 processing for the front channels ONLY. Meaning, you are not getting the higher bitrate PER CHANNEL that blu-ray caters for. So it's no better than normal DVD quality DTS or Dolby.
2) There is no active subwoofer. This means, there is no discreet subwoofer channel. All the channels sound is passed through the sub and everything bellow 200Hz is removed from the signals by a crossover, and passed through to the "Passive Subwoofer". This means the system would not be true 5.1
3) If you look under "other information" and then the amplifier's frequency response. You'll see some numbers. take the Digital input 20Hz ~ 44Hz +- 3db. What this means, is that the sensitivity of the amplifier's digital input ranges on that playback frequency has a deviation of positive or negative 3 decibels.
What that means, is that the AMPLIFIER is affecting the source signal by 3db in either direction. Since db's are measure on a logarithmic scale, that is MASSIVE in quality terms. A sound recorded at 500Hz and played back at -20db could be affected by as much as 3db in either direction. BY THE AMPLIFIER! that's before you get to the speakers accuracy and sensitivity. This sort of deviation will already nullify the better quality offered by blu-ray.
4) They have not posted deviation figures for the speakers... which is usually a bad sign.
5) The speakers channels are all 170 Watts at 3 ohms. The amp has decreased impedance to increase power. This is probably the reason for the massive deviation figures. Normal HiFi systems should be either 6 or 8 ohms. If this system was 6 ohms, according to ohms law, the power output of the amp would be halved. (V= Ir) Power is W = I(squared) x R. So the amp is "cheating" to boost the power output.
6) There is no THX certification for a reason. (not saying that is the be all and end all - but NOT having it is bad)

So on paper, there is no way that the system is capable of harnessing the relatively small increase in fine detail offered by Dolby TruSurround and DTS-MA.

The subjective listening value is an entirely different thing all together. What sounds better to one guy might sound crusty to someone else. Some people are bass freaks while others judge it on the stereoscopic projection.
There's no way to be objective one way or the other.
The important thing is that YOU think it's sounds better. I hate it when people take the salesman's "advice" over what their own ears are telling them. If you like X than don't buy Y just because the dildo in the red shirt tells you that a 7 and a half inch woofer cone gives better bass so buy Y.


With regards to this system sounding better than your old system... I can't comment.
Lot's of things affect sound.
The different levels of each channel
The EQ
The room
The source media
Speaker positioning

and that's before you get to the system itself... but your ears are the best judge.

 

[stevenv]

Good post and very true: your ears are the best judge. Salesmen are some of the most horrible people when it comes to buying HT equipment whether it be TVs or audio: they really know little to nothing unless you go to the pro shops. Ultimately you really need to take it home, set it up and see how it sounds. At the end of the day hopefully the store you buy from will take it back if you don't like it but I would check that beforehand. Got mine from Makro and they said they would provided it wasn't damaged however I didn't test this theory. For me it was a balance between affordability and acceptability, found really nice receivers for R3k alone not to mention spending twice that for active subwoofer and satellites. The only other choice was an older Sony kit for R5k but had to connect separate cables for audio and would've had to replace my system stand to fit the receiver: would've ended up costing twice what I paid.

 

[OverKill69]

Don't get me wrong... I think systems like the Samsung have their advantages over a component system.
Price definitely being one of them.

I'm actually looking into buying a system like this for my sister. She doesn't have a system that can play divx or mkv off of USB or disc.

This one would fit the bill 100%

It's just that the lines get blurry with quality vs price.
If you're a quality hound... then unfortunately, these all in one systems just don't cut the mustard.

 

[NielJoubert]

6) There is no THX certification for a reason. (not saying that is the be all and end all - but NOT having it is bad)

Is THX such a big factor for a first time buyer? In a few years time, I will probably buy a receiver and speakers (which is THX certified), but for now I think I will be able to survive without it
Will go to the shop and hear how it sounds. Just need to organize an action bluray with alot of gunfire etc. hehe

She doesn't have a system that can play divx or mkv off of USB or disc.

The MKV is a big plus point for me, because I have a lot of anime/series and movies in mkv format. And I think my divx player (HDD recorder) is only 460p (or whatever DVD quality is).

 

[OverKill69]

Is THX such a big factor for a first time buyer? In a few years time, I will probably buy a receiver and speakers (which is THX certified), but for now I think I will be able to survive without it
Will go to the shop and hear how it sounds. Just need to organize an action bluray with alot of gunfire etc. hehe



The MKV is a big plus point for me, because I have a lot of anime/series and movies in mkv format. And I think my divx player (HDD recorder) is only 460p (or whatever DVD quality is).

The THX certification is not really a major factor. So don't worry about it.
The reason why it isn't THX certified is probably the lack of a discreet active subwoofer.
But I've heard THX certified 9.1 systems (like that Logitech one with the 500w subwoofer)... and they sound GROSS. I think they have a policy of "when in doubt, add more speaker and more bass"
GREAT - now I can hear k@k coming out of 9 speakers instead of ONLY 5

The upscaling, depending on your TV, will make your DVD's look a lot better too.

P.S. Best Blu-Rays to test your system.


Kung Fu Panda - Watch the escape scene... OH MY SACK! it has everything... huge treble with the arrows hitting the chains, and amazing deep rolling bass with the slow mo sequences... all in a nice 8 minute sequence!
Fight Club - there's no real scene I can recommend, but the whole movie is a audiophile's wet dream. Best surround sound projection in my opinion. If you have your system setup to the right levels, this movie's sound will blow you away!
The Dark Knight - Sound isn't bad, but the picture quality is UNPARALLELED! Mainly because there's shots filmed in actual IMAX format. Best picture on blu-ray at the moment.
Master and Commander - If you can find it! They went to town on the sound reproduction. The whole movie is incredible! The creaking of the ship, the cannons, the bells... on par with Fight Club.
The Book of Eli - The scene where the baddies are shooting up the old people's house... especially when they pan into the Gatling Cannon. WOW! good surround effects!
The 5th Element - try get the Uncompressed PCM version... WOW! Your speakers will dance!
DON'T use Avatar - sound wasn't the best on the blu-ray.

where did you see this system for R3k? like I said, I'm keen to buy one for my sister... Her B'day's comin up!

 

[NielJoubert]

P.S. Best Blu-Rays to test your system.

Kung Fu Panda - Watch the escape scene... OH MY SACK! it has everything... huge treble with the arrows hitting the chains, and amazing deep rolling bass with the slow mo sequences... all in a nice 8 minute sequence!
Fight Club - there's no real scene I can recommend, but the whole movie is a audiophile's wet dream. Best surround sound projection in my opinion. If you have your system setup to the right levels, this movie's sound will blow you away!
The Dark Knight - Sound isn't bad, but the picture quality is UNPARALLELED! Mainly because there's shots filmed in actual IMAX format. Best picture on blu-ray at the moment.
Master and Commander - If you can find it! They went to town on the sound reproduction. The whole movie is incredible! The creaking of the ship, the cannons, the bells... on par with Fight Club.
The Book of Eli - The scene where the baddies are shooting up the old people's house... especially when they pan into the Gatling Cannon. WOW! good surround effects!
The 5th Element - try get the Uncompressed PCM version... WOW! Your speakers will dance!
DON'T use Avatar - sound wasn't the best on the blu-ray.

That was my next question!

where did you see this system for R3k? like I said, I'm keen to buy one for my sister... Her B'day's comin up!

Its at Makro for R3 299. I work for Shoprite, so I can get 10% at House & Home, so will be taking the quote from Makro to H&H. So then I'll only pay R3k They have it for +-R3 700 now.

I don't think R3 299 is expensive at all.

Thanks a lot for the help OverKill69!

 

[OverKill69]

That was my next question!



Its at Makro for R3 299. I work for Shoprite, so I can get 10% at House & Home, so will be taking the quote from Makro to H&H. So then I'll only pay R3k They have it for +-R3 700 now.

I don't think R3 299 is expensive at all.

Thanks a lot for the help OverKill69!

Sweet!
Makro it is!

No problem dude! If ever you have HiFi related questions, PM me and I'll give you the straight answers without the BS! There's only one thing I love more than my sound system and that is... er... this is a family forum