C# Developer

[biometrics]

Engrish?

:wtf: :erm:

 

[Blue Label Recruitment]

Hi All,

As promised - salary in the range of about R28K to R35k, might be able to push slightly if necessary to secure the right candidate... Without getting into the nuts and bolts, we need a mid-ish dev, C# (Web) - based in Northern Subs, CPT. I have many positions who have a similar MO - so if there is still someone, who hasn't been helped yet, let's talk.

PS - Vampire - I agree about this total nonsense about "Market related salary", hence my add-in about that at the bottom of my "rant/ advice" There is literally no such thing, or rather, if there truly does exist this little-black-book about what salaries ARE SUPPOSED to be, please send this my way, I'm sure I'd make a fortune then. But true, each company pays what they can w.r.t. budgets, planning, core business, etc. etc.

However, maybe it is because I am a Recruiter and justifying my cause, but I do believe it fair to share your current salary (Bought a house recently, and I was reeeeaaaallly upset when agents wanted to take / force me to go look at houses completely out of my budget - I knew what I could spend, and I was only going to look at those which are within this, or if above, something reasonably close to my budget with room for negotiation...). yes, for all the bad you've experienced in Recruiters, I have also had such great relationships with my candidates (and continue to do so), who would not have had that job, if I hadn't picked up the phone and made that call... So we are in some cases, the means to an end, and if I have a client who asks me what this candidate is on, and I don't even know the "price" of my product, how will I have a sustainable business, not even to talk about my reputation? And yes, I do hear the crowd shouting, "I'LL give you what I WANT!!!", but it does't work that way - we will get there; Part of the decision making process when hiring someone is 1) understanding the fact that we each work for our salaries and money really does make the world go 'round", so you'll have to listen to what they expect either way, but 2) looking for someone who can make good decisions, realistic in expectations, sound business thinking... If I am on R35K (which is about an ave salary for someone in mid range career), and I expect nothing less than R70K for my next job... To be honest, I wouldn't make that hire, we think differently about working to get somewhere, gaining credibility before gaining the trust to get that, and so while it is not always "just to add R2 500 to your payslip", some characteristics of a prospective hire, is unspoken, and we too, have to read between the lines...

I thank each of you for your time with this entire discussion - I really do try to aim to have IT Recruiters, who understand IT - we do not dabble in it, this is all we do - very small team, but very effective. While we cannot write one line of code (//Hello World// was completely lost on me), whether it's Infrastructure or Dev, I am proud to say, we do not confuse our languages, we understand security from virtualization and I can continue, if I had that time to chat

Good luck!

 

[Batista]

Thanks BLR - well put.

 

[Bighit]

Well done BLR! You've gained respect on this forum.

 

[^^vampire^^]

Hi All,

As promised - salary in the range of about R28K to R35k, might be able to push slightly if necessary to secure the right candidate... Without getting into the nuts and bolts, we need a mid-ish dev, C# (Web) - based in Northern Subs, CPT. I have many positions who have a similar MO - so if there is still someone, who hasn't been helped yet, let's talk.

PS - Vampire - I agree about this total nonsense about "Market related salary", hence my add-in about that at the bottom of my "rant/ advice" There is literally no such thing, or rather, if there truly does exist this little-black-book about what salaries ARE SUPPOSED to be, please send this my way, I'm sure I'd make a fortune then. But true, each company pays what they can w.r.t. budgets, planning, core business, etc. etc.

However, maybe it is because I am a Recruiter and justifying my cause, but I do believe it fair to share your current salary (Bought a house recently, and I was reeeeaaaallly upset when agents wanted to take / force me to go look at houses completely out of my budget - I knew what I could spend, and I was only going to look at those which are within this, or if above, something reasonably close to my budget with room for negotiation...). yes, for all the bad you've experienced in Recruiters, I have also had such great relationships with my candidates (and continue to do so), who would not have had that job, if I hadn't picked up the phone and made that call... So we are in some cases, the means to an end, and if I have a client who asks me what this candidate is on, and I don't even know the "price" of my product, how will I have a sustainable business, not even to talk about my reputation? And yes, I do hear the crowd shouting, "I'LL give you what I WANT!!!", but it does't work that way - we will get there; Part of the decision making process when hiring someone is 1) understanding the fact that we each work for our salaries and money really does make the world go 'round", so you'll have to listen to what they expect either way, but 2) looking for someone who can make good decisions, realistic in expectations, sound business thinking... If I am on R35K (which is about an ave salary for someone in mid range career), and I expect nothing less than R70K for my next job... To be honest, I wouldn't make that hire, we think differently about working to get somewhere, gaining credibility before gaining the trust to get that, and so while it is not always "just to add R2 500 to your payslip", some characteristics of a prospective hire, is unspoken, and we too, have to read between the lines...

I thank each of you for your time with this entire discussion - I really do try to aim to have IT Recruiters, who understand IT - we do not dabble in it, this is all we do - very small team, but very effective. While we cannot write one line of code (//Hello World// was completely lost on me), whether it's Infrastructure or Dev, I am proud to say, we do not confuse our languages, we understand security from virtualization and I can continue, if I had that time to chat

Good luck!

Thanks for the replies so far BLR a continued discussion is always worth it for us as developers to get the frustrations across. If it improves the situation for both parties then we are getting somewhere.

I just want to clarify my point. I'm not against taking a call from a recruiter, sending my payslip or filling in the documents they require, however, I do believe the process could be a lot less painful if simple things were followed. Like you said previously, yes, it's hard to nail down a salary for a specific job and no, there is no little black book, but if a prospective employer cannot even give you a range (market related etc) then maybe they should first look at hiring a new person to draw up the budgets as that person clearly can't do their job.

I often tell recruiters who call to please send me an e-mail instead of calling. This way we can get down to business rather than having the often useless chit chat. It also allows me to check out what they want or are offering in a time when I can actually attend to it. I also tell recruiters to e-mail me whatever specs they have that they think fit my profile. Once again then I can double check and truly see if I feel my skills are inline with what the prospective employer is asking for.

If I find a spec that I believe is a fit for both parties then I'm willing to take a call and do the documentation. Then the recruiter can gauge what kind of person I am and from their perspective and choose if I'm a candidate worth representing; I understand representing a candidate also influences the recruiters reputation. I just believe that a lot of wasted time and money can be avoided in the beginning before you get to the point that the candidate wants to apply or you want to represent them.

Even though there's a lot of anger behind many posts (with good reason), if a recruiter truly listened and streamlines their processes as best they could to fit what their potential clients want I think they would be far more successful. I do see that you are trying to address some of these issues and even keeping the conversation going here is testament to that.

I wish you well and hope that you will take onboard some of the suggestions here as a gesture of goodwill rather than just a rant of frustration.

 

[envo]

I work for a company and we're busy recruiting new people. For one, a position won't be advertised if there isn't a salary range already in place, we need to know how much the new candidate would cost us for the skillset we're looking for, we also know what the median range is and we up our salaries based on the candidate we want to attract and get the budget approved beforehand. So by saying you didn't know what the salary range would be before advertising the position is utter horse **** in my opinion

 

[envo]

Hi All,

As promised - salary in the range of about R28K to R35k, might be able to push slightly if necessary to secure the right candidate... Without getting into the nuts and bolts, we need a mid-ish dev, C# (Web) - based in Northern Subs, CPT. I have many positions who have a similar MO - so if there is still someone, who hasn't been helped yet, let's talk.

PS - Vampire - I agree about this total nonsense about "Market related salary", hence my add-in about that at the bottom of my "rant/ advice" There is literally no such thing, or rather, if there truly does exist this little-black-book about what salaries ARE SUPPOSED to be, please send this my way, I'm sure I'd make a fortune then. But true, each company pays what they can w.r.t. budgets, planning, core business, etc. etc.

However, maybe it is because I am a Recruiter and justifying my cause, but I do believe it fair to share your current salary (Bought a house recently, and I was reeeeaaaallly upset when agents wanted to take / force me to go look at houses completely out of my budget - I knew what I could spend, and I was only going to look at those which are within this, or if above, something reasonably close to my budget with room for negotiation...). yes, for all the bad you've experienced in Recruiters, I have also had such great relationships with my candidates (and continue to do so), who would not have had that job, if I hadn't picked up the phone and made that call... So we are in some cases, the means to an end, and if I have a client who asks me what this candidate is on, and I don't even know the "price" of my product, how will I have a sustainable business, not even to talk about my reputation? And yes, I do hear the crowd shouting, "I'LL give you what I WANT!!!", but it does't work that way - we will get there; Part of the decision making process when hiring someone is 1) understanding the fact that we each work for our salaries and money really does make the world go 'round", so you'll have to listen to what they expect either way, but 2) looking for someone who can make good decisions, realistic in expectations, sound business thinking... If I am on R35K (which is about an ave salary for someone in mid range career), and I expect nothing less than R70K for my next job... To be honest, I wouldn't make that hire, we think differently about working to get somewhere, gaining credibility before gaining the trust to get that, and so while it is not always "just to add R2 500 to your payslip", some characteristics of a prospective hire, is unspoken, and we too, have to read between the lines...

I thank each of you for your time with this entire discussion - I really do try to aim to have IT Recruiters, who understand IT - we do not dabble in it, this is all we do - very small team, but very effective. While we cannot write one line of code (//Hello World// was completely lost on me), whether it's Infrastructure or Dev, I am proud to say, we do not confuse our languages, we understand security from virtualization and I can continue, if I had that time to chat

Good luck!

I have to disagree. It is of no interest of the prospecting company what I earn currently. They have a budget. They can make me an offer. If I choose to apply for the position, it's because I find the salary and position attractive. I've been in a situation before where I decided to take a lesser paying job (by almost half). Does that mean that I'm "jumping too far" by going back to my normal mid-range/late-range career salary expectations? No. Does a company with a position available have anything to do with my current finances or salary? No.

Test me. Interview me 3 times. Grill me. If I pass your tests, why can't I then earn the salary you'd have offered at the top range? Why should I be subject to a slight increase or be declined because they think I'm not worth going from, let's say, R15k to R45k?

 

[samaras]

Can anyone tell me how recruiters are affected by the POPI Act with all the database they have on people?

 

[cguy]

I have to disagree. It is of no interest of the prospecting company what I earn currently. They have a budget. They can make me an offer. If I choose to apply for the position, it's because I find the salary and position attractive. I've been in a situation before where I decided to take a lesser paying job (by almost half). Does that mean that I'm "jumping too far" by going back to my normal mid-range/late-range career salary expectations? No. Does a company with a position available have anything to do with my current finances or salary? No.

Test me. Interview me 3 times. Grill me. If I pass your tests, why can't I then earn the salary you'd have offered at the top range? Why should I be subject to a slight increase or be declined because they think I'm not worth going from, let's say, R15k to R45k?

I agree with this mostly. The only exception I've encountered is when the company cannot adequately assess the candidate (they're hiring for a new skill set that they want to add, or more senior/expert than any existing staff). They basically use your previous company's pay as a proxy for skill level and a pay guide.

 

[jman]

I agree with this mostly. The only exception I've encountered is when the company cannot adequately assess the candidate (they're hiring for a new skill set that they want to add, or more senior/expert than any existing staff). They basically use your previous company's pay as a proxy for skill level and a pay guide.

That's a good point, but I don't think that it's usually the case. Seems common procedure for companies to offer you something in accordance to your current salary.

 

[^^vampire^^]

That's a good point, but I don't think that it's usually the case. Seems common procedure for companies to offer you something in accordance to your current salary.

Exactly this. I believe the recruiter should be allowed to use it to weed out chancers. A person on R30k looking for R40k in my opinion is acceptable but someone on R10k looking for R35k is going to ring some alarm bells.

I specifically bar recruiters from sharing my current salary with new employers but allow them to see it so they can see tat I'm legit.

 

[jman]

Exactly this. I believe the recruiter should be allowed to use it to weed out chancers. A person on R30k looking for R40k in my opinion is acceptable but someone on R10k looking for R35k is going to ring some alarm bells.

I specifically bar recruiters from sharing my current salary with new employers but allow them to see it so they can see tat I'm legit.

Also, if your current company is underpaying you, which is rather common- especially with smaller companies, then new offers won't be in line with what you are worth/deserve.