Call for homework to fall

[Knyro]

One of the things homework specifically does not do is teach children to work by themselves without constant supervision. It cannot because homework is typically monitored and enforced. It doesn't really teach delayed gratification either and you have bigger problems if you're relying on homework to do that, even if it did work.

Depends on the kid really. My parents never checked or helped with my homework, even in primary school. As long as my grades stayed top shelf and I never got in trouble they stayed off my back as far as school was concerned. I was better off being left to my own devices. They noticed and acted accordingly.

 

[Craig_]

Positive move. Most homework in the early school years is more a means to grind a child into the ground and break their will than anything of practical value.


That's exactly what primary school homework is not, especially in the earlier grades. Its tedious busywork that is in fact a waste of the child's time. There is basically nothing to revise in the early school years. If the goal is to prepare them for potential university study then the primary things they need to learn are independence and self-motivation. Traditional schools absolutely loathe independent children who think for themselves. They want nice little conformists. And they do nothing whatsoever to engender self-motivation (of which homework is the absolute antithesis).


Smaller children are the ones for whom it is the least important. It's typically just a means to waste a child's, and their parents', time.

Did you to read why I said that (my opinion) it's important? Or is at least for any parent that want to monitor their kids progress on an ongoing basis.

My oldest kids school stopped sending homework this year's, but just a quick 5 min answer that parent and does together and then you sign their behaviour chart for the day. Then separate they give home work that's optional, you don't have to do it.

Now we sit with that homework everyday and see that she can do it. Which kid do you think will do better at the end of the year, the kid that did the extra work, or the kid of the lazy slacker that don't have time for his/her own kids?

 

[HavocXphere]

Hmm... which ones? There's a difference between government schools and public schools. People on this forum often confuse the two.

Do tell?

A private school is not going to make your son or daughter more intelligent.

Of course not. Education isn't about increasing intelligence.

I am yet to be convinced that SA's private schools provide a better education than the good (read good) model C schools. The only difference is that they pay more money.

And I'm continually amazed that this needs convincing at all. Here's an example:

The schools are all competing for the same pool of teachers. Who is going to get the best teachers - the private school that can throw massive amounts of money at it or the model C school that is constrained by budget?

Best teachers translates fairly directly into best education especially if you've got budget to given then the tools they need to do the job and can shield them from Dept of Education shenanigans.

 

[Swa]

Education is also becoming the next best business in the world. The reality is that kids have different ability. A private school is not going to make your son or daughter more intelligent. I am yet to be convinced that SA's private schools provide a better education than the good (read good) model C schools. The only difference is that they pay more money.

The best value for money is currently the former model C and then the good public schools.

I agree there shouldn't be any homework in Primary School, but High School you need it. I didn't learn anything during the day at High School, was more interested in chatting with friends and chasing grills - homework was the only time I ever actually worked and really learnt stuff by going through it by myself

And there is your real problem.

They become part of the FMF bunch of snowflakes who will demand that their tests be made easier to accommodate their feelings.

Our society requires adults that are able to do a piece of work by themselves without constant supervision. This is one of the things that homework gets kids to do. It also teaches kids to delay gratification, which is one of those things that is absolutely critical for people to be able to function.

The other thing is that in certain subjects like mathematics, you have to get regular and constant practice. Homework provides this type of practice. Some kids (like yours truly) will not learn anything until they have practiced it properly.

edit:
that being said, I think homework should be coordinated between classes such that primary school kids don't get anything longer than an hour.

Nothing that some well thought out classwork can't provide.

Do tell?

Government schools are state funded. Public schools don't get funding from the government.

 

[Nicodeamus]

And I'm continually amazed that this needs convincing at all. Here's an example:

The schools are all competing for the same pool of teachers. Who is going to get the best teachers - the private school that can throw massive amounts of money at it or the model C school that is constrained by budget?

Best teachers translates fairly directly into best education especially if you've got budget to given then the tools they need to do the job and can shield them from Dept of Education shenanigans.

Firstly, I don't believe it is the case, some model C schools can compete with private schools. There are not that many private schools around who are supposedly starving the country of good teachers. Afrikaans schools are mostly model C and perform just as well as any good private schools.

Secondly, judging who is a good teacher is also extremely difficult. I have two siblings who are teachers, one year they have a class where half the kids do very well, the next year they don't. The reason being that kids often motivate each other and that you have a big variation from one year to the other.

You also can't just look at the marks that the kids get on exams (which is what many private schools do). I would be better of getting 60% under a challenging math class than 80% because a teacher prepped me for an exam. This is the danger that you walk into when you start evaluating teachers.

Obviously a bad teacher is easy to spot, what makes " a good teacher" is very subjective.

It is important in SA to make a distinction between good and bad model c schools.

 

[Nicodeamus]

The best value for money is currently the former model C and then the good public schools.

It depends obviously on what you want from it. I would send my kid to a private school if I wanted him to get good business connections. I am only kidding myself if I believe that he will walk out more competent or prepped for university.

Also I am not aware of any private vocational high school in SA (at least in Johannesburg and Pretoria). My bet is that children today are better of going to one of them than this insane "everyone must go to university" attitude.

 

[HavocXphere]

Firstly, I don't believe it is the case, some model C schools can compete with private schools. There are not that many private schools around who are supposedly starving the country of good teachers. Afrikaans schools are mostly model C and perform just as well as any good private schools.

Secondly, judging who is a good teacher is also extremely difficult. I have two siblings who are teachers, one year they have a class where half the kids do very well, the next year they don't. The reason being that kids often motivate each other and that you have a big variation from one year to the other.

You also can't just look at the marks that the kids get on exams (which is what many private schools do). I would be better of getting 60% under a challenging math class than 80% because a teacher prepped me for an exam. This is the danger that you walk into when you start evaluating teachers.

Obviously a bad teacher is easy to spot, what makes " a good teacher" is very subjective.

It is important in SA to make a distinction between good and bad model c schools.

Yes teaching is subjective, variable, hard to judge and subject to external forces. None of which actually addresses the point I was making:

If two schools compete for top teaching talent all other things being equal the one with the bigger cheque book will always win. The end.

Literally the entire labour market works that way.

The best value for money is currently the former model C and then the good public schools.

Agreed. A lot of the private schools are on the wrong side of diminishing returns in my view. Or put differently I think one can do better than a good model C by throwing money at the problem...but above say 70k-ish I don't think you're really gaining much education value anymore for additional rand spent. Where you set that cut-off point is very dependent on perspective though.

From a middle class PoV model Cs are definitely best value for money.

 

[^^vampire^^]

Jikes. Who came up with that idea?

Realistically one needs to segment this stuff (Add. Math, High grade, St grade etc) - else you've got people that are bored and people not keeping up in the same class. Which is a pretty bleak failure on both fronts.

The education department. For some reason they think the smart kids are somehow going to help the autistic kids learn, but instead they just cause disruptions then everyone suffers.

Those kids that are high performing are being left to be bored because the teachers can't keep up with dealing with a range of 5 or more skill levels in one class. On top of that they are expected to give easier, more direct work to cater for lower learners while giving the kids that excel higher level work.

It's absolute chaos.

 

[Nicodeamus]

The education department. For some reason they think the smart kids are somehow going to help the autistic kids learn, but instead they just cause disruptions then everyone suffers.

Those kids that are high performing are being left to be bored because the teachers can't keep up with dealing with a range of 5 or more skill levels in one class. On top of that they are expected to give easier, more direct work to cater for lower learners while giving the kids that excel higher level work.

It's absolute chaos.

This comes to the heart of the problem with our educational system. We seperate kids by age and not ability. There are many kids that can finnish highschool much earlier, but they get no incentive to do so.

 

[CT_Biker]

Homework is not entirely bad. I was never a fan of the longer research assignments. To ask a primary scholar to endure that is not cool.

 

[noxibox]

:erm: adopting an approach from 1907 (when Dr. Maria Montessori opened her first classroom) isn't all that progressive, just saying ...

Yes, she figured out children and a superb way to educate them long ago. Mainstream education has been a bit slow on the uptake. Still clinging to their dinosaur methods.

 

[noxibox]

Separating children by age is a particularly stupid tradition in schools.

Homework is not entirely bad. I was never a fan of the longer research assignments. To ask a primary scholar to endure that is not cool.

Well if you were going to ask them to do anything then independent research would be the best choice. Far better than the standard repetitive drivel that is usually handed out as homework.

The education department. For some reason they think the smart kids are somehow going to help the autistic kids learn, but instead they just cause disruptions then everyone suffers.

It is intended to help with socialisation. And for the high functioning autistic individuals a standard school is exactly where they should be.

Those kids that are high performing are being left to be bored because the teachers can't keep up with dealing with a range of 5 or more skill levels in one class.

So not really different to what one would have generally found in a typical school.

 

[noxibox]

It depends obviously on what you want from it. I would send my kid to a private school if I wanted him to get good business connections. I am only kidding myself if I believe that he will walk out more competent or prepped for university.

Also I am not aware of any private vocational high school in SA (at least in Johannesburg and Pretoria). My bet is that children today are better of going to one of them than this insane "everyone must go to university" attitude.

In some cases they may be less prepped. All that assistance on call can make them incapable of the self-motivation required to survive at university.

The business world is partially responsible for driving ever more people into degrees. In the UK there has been a trend to require a university degree for pretty much every job, regardless of whether having a degree serves any purpose. I'm all for education for its own sake, but then people should be studying as an end in itself rather than pushed into it because having some degree is mandated just to get an arbitrary job.

 

[access]

meh, homework helps

but not when its lumped on you because the teacher should not be there, or is not there for that matter..

lots need to be fixed there first before changing anything.

 

[Swa]

In some cases they may be less prepped. All that assistance on call can make them incapable of the self-motivation required to survive at university.

The business world is partially responsible for driving ever more people into degrees. In the UK there has been a trend to require a university degree for pretty much every job, regardless of whether having a degree serves any purpose. I'm all for education for its own sake, but then people should be studying as an end in itself rather than pushed into it because having some degree is mandated just to get an arbitrary job.

The "business world" is failing, partly because it hasn't recognised that the world is becoming more decentralised with less people sitting in offices and factories.