Calling all wireless providers

Organize a band

The reason why www.arrow.altech.co.za and IS can't provide DSLAM solutions are because the devices are not Icasa approved and they can't challenge Telkom directly for obvious reasons. Residents on the other hand can challenge Icasa and Telkom directly, we don't have a Vans license
to lose. The view of Icasa are that only Telkom be allowed to posses these devices. This is merely their view, only a judge can decide. The deployment of DSLAM has been going on for years in hotels closed villages etc. Some claim to use fiber optics, but this is not true, they are trying to stay below the radar. That is until now. http://www.communiverse.co.za/ has come out of the closet. How many of you 'undercover' DSLAM solutions providers are still out there?

Vusi Pikoli , NDPP doesn't seem to be some sort of Robocop. If he doesn't want to prosecute theft where hunger was the reason then perhaps he won't buy Icasa's interpretation of data crossing boundaries.

What we need to show South-AFrican that we can cut through tar roads without permission, are some sort of publicity stunt. A group of residents interconnects their hidden DSLAM devices to the others across the street and need to cut through the road. So we organize a band phone Cart Blanch , make a video of this ground braking event and send it to Icasa. Put up a huge billboard that says:” Openly defying Icasa” with the website and all the pictures proving that our fronting company cut through
the road. Now this will get everybody's attention.
 
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What we need to show South-AFrican that we can cut through tar roads without permission, are some sort of publicity stunt. A group of residents interconnects their hidden DSLAM devices to the others across the street and need to cut through the road. So we organize a band phone Cart Blanch , make a video of this ground braking event and send it to Icasa. Put up a huge billboard that says:” Openly defying Icasa” with the website and all the pictures proving that our fronting company cut through
the road. Now this will get everybody's attention.
Click to expand...

let me get this straight, in other words, what you are trying to say is...

I AM A TOTAL NUTTER, A LOONY, a whacko, put me in a very tight fitting white jacket.

you wanna cut thru tar roads without permission as a sign of defiance to ICASA, what about vandalism, destruction of property?

how do you think the residents of said streets will react, when you tell them, its for the greater good of DSLAM interconnection.

actually, you'd be lucky if you end up in a straight jacket, and not ICU.
nuf said.
 
Reading through this thread it seems I have managed to traumatize some people. Some of you have really got to relax and think before you post.
Dear dorris, please phone Nelspruit roads division and discuss it with them. The gentleman I spoke to there said that he has absolutely no problem with somebody cutting a thin line through the tar road to lay a fiber optic cable. He had more of an issue with the video cams on the streets, he felt it would violate his privacy. The machine that is used has a rotating blade that cuts up to a certain depth. Than thin line is patched up immediately and vehicles can continue to drive over it. You would have to look pretty hard to find it. I have had many dealings with the police and there is one consistent theme:"What would the reasonable man have done" As long as
you fix that cut in the road, then you are reasonable no matter what the law says. And since I am using the exact same machine that council uses and repair it just like they do, then I am being reasonable. In fact what you must do first is tell a police officer you know what you are going to do. So that if they get a phone call from an M-web manager they won't come out to investigate. The SAPS also have wifes staying at home that needs to be protected.

The main issue with all of this is that it chills the blood of IS management.
If we were to get this of the ground it would transform South-Africa in ways that won't exactly go down well with the security industry, ISP's Because they will simply be excluded. The phone network would be ours and we would dictate the terms.

The irony in all of this are that South-Africa are one of the few places in the world where you can build your own private telephone exchange. Australia forbids you from streaming Internet data over Wi-fi and they enforce these laws. In our legal system it is simply impossible to stop us from cutting through roads, the capacity to deal with a popular 'rebellion' is just not there.

Hence I propose a Knight in shimmering armor on his horse accompanied by trumpeters playing one of Beethoven's overtures as we cut through that tar road. And I will publish this epic event and openly challenge Icasa to arrest my director. Nothing will happen. And I will keep on rubbing it in. Slowly
residents will realize that they can cut through that road. The only real barrier was the cost of these DSLAM's. Only recently have they become affordable. Please question your assumptions, in your haste to comment on my post you have assumed that Council won't give permission. ;)

Now remember the road belongs to council. One council member at Neslpruit
just can't wait for me to do this, she is sick of crime. What forbids us
from working in partnership? This is an enourmous grey legal area.
The real reason why nothing is happening is because the shop owners simply
have no idea that this technology is available to them and where to get it.
How many councilors do you think knows what a DSLAM is? We need
to go through an education process where we calmly explain just how easy it is to run copper wire from building to building through the streets.
The first step would be to get shops to interconnect via DSLAM. These people don't let themselves be easily intimidated. Once we have them on the
DSLAM bandwagon, connecting residents would be a natural extension.

Even .mybroadband.co.za has called Icasa the 'formidable Icasa'. I just
want to see how formidable they really are. :)
 
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captainwifi said:
Hence I propose a Knight in shimmering armor on his horse accompanied by trumpeters playing one of Beethoven's overtures as we cut through that tar road. And I will publish this epic event and openly challenge Icasa to arrest my director. Nothing will happen. And I will keep on rubbing it in.
Click to expand...

Oh for Chrissakes. Please take your pills on a regular basis instead of once every fortnight.

captainwifi said:
Even .mybroadband.co.za has called Icasa the 'formidable Icasa'. I just
want to see how formidable they really are. :)
Click to expand...

Be sure to let me know the date and time that you are going to do this "magnificent" deed in the name of bandwidth. I'd love to be there with my camera to take pictures of the arrest.
 
Continue Captain

I fully support your views Captain Wi-Fi. It is people like you with an alternative view, and intelligent for those interested, that change life and direction. Of course there are those with hidden agendas who will try and make these comments off as ludacrous. Continue enlighting others. I totally enjoy (most of) your posts.
 
I need a parody site like Mad's www.hellkom.co.za site of Icasa. It must lampoon
them to the point utter fatuousness like having mice that look like they have just overdosed on Jamie Uys's spiked maroelas dancing on Icasa's name for example. And below it I will publish the names of all the networking companies in and out of the closet with their contact numbers. Farmers right here in South-Africa use their fences to communicate with other farmers via DSLAM's. All of this must be boldly exposed and the transforming power of a DSLAM championed as I mercilessly rub it into Icasa's face. The king has no clothes ladies and gentleman. This 'formidable' holy cow needs to be slaughtered. Mad what do you say? How about taking a jab at Telkom's storm troopers ?
 
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4core fiber run R11/m
R800 Gbig module which is a Fiber to UTP converter
R100 per splice, R800 for per node
R1200 for a 4port fiber switch.
The fiber optics company I spoke just did a connection for Checkers where
they bridged 500 operators over a 4km distance. It seems a fiber solution is 6xtimes more expensive than a DSLAM deployment. The 4pair backbone underground fiber optic cable has bandwidth capacity of 1000gig with the correct Fiber switch. What on earth would 200 houses in a street
want to do with so much data?
Each user has a Gbig module (R900) which is a Fiber/UTP node.
The fiber backbone is terminated into a 24port or higher fiber/utp switch.

Tinus at 082 *** **** gave me a brief explenation of fiber optic deployment. A R150 000 fiber splicing machine is used to splice each fiber (4) at R100 per node. With the corrent equipment it is as easy to build a fiber network across the road as laying copper wire. Fiber is hopeless overkill. One would only use this to connect two DSLAMs across a public road. The R150 000 is a formidable barrier to entry into the fiber networking
market. With a DSLAM the the barrier to entry is zero.
There is a massive conspiracy to keep of all of this silent. Checkers should have used a DSLAM, there was no need for fiber. Each of the 500 operators should have been connected to the DSLAM via 500 ADSL2+ client devices sold by http://www.billionsa.com/contact.htm
All of this data is carried on a shielded 4 , 2pair twisted copper cable.
This is housed ina a single sheathed cable 8mm in diameter. With DSLAM you can get more than 10gig bandwidth.
A DSLAM is a point to multi-point device. Each ADSL2+ client device has
an upstream capability of 2meg and downstream 24meg. What does
anybody want to do with more bandwidth than this ?
DSLAM can be daisy chained from Pretoria to JHB
Each elphel camera only needs 1meg upstream.
The networking companies are delibartly feigning ignorance concerning DSLAM. I had to patiently explain to Tinus what a DSLAM is. Who do they think they are kidding?

Any Ethernet device like a www.elphel.com network camera can be connected to this ADSL2+ modem. This networking camera has a static IP and over 200 cameras can be monitored via a single DSLAM device. This is the simple trivial solution that can't be openly sold. And what exactly will Icasa do about it? It is easy to confiscate a parabolic from a roof. But the location of a Dslam can easily be concealed. No court will issue a summons that 200 houses must be stormed by the terrifying SAPS. There are limits to everything ,even Icasa has limits. DSLAM's can't be openly sold by networking companies. So you will just have to import the stuff yourself via DHL.
8 port DSLAM for $800
http://www.provantage.com/scripts/cart.dll/x/0/continue/ZYXE05F
 
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captainwifi.. you ramblings make me nauseous

Once again, your entire line of thought it flawed.
If you're just going to be creating a point-to-point line over copper, you dont need a DSLAM. A pair of xDSL modems will do (Cisco calls them Ethernet Extenders).

I'm sure there are some engineers out there who would like to know where you propose getting 1000gig over a single fibre for only R900. (1gig/1000m I can understand.. but 1000gig?)

How about this. When you have set up something along the lines of what you've mentioned in your ramblings, we'll actually start taking you seriously.

My Hamster with a Googlebar can produce more factual rants than you.
 
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My Hamster with a Googlebar can produce more factual rants than you.
Click to expand...
BWAahahahahaha!
I think our forums seen lots of this RODENT you speak of already :)
can he code in c, and break any linux device you give him too.
 
The roads division manager I spoke to a year ago I could not get hold of.
Japie from Engineering at Hazyview told me to go to Leon Hallett at room 221 in the
Civic center in Nelspruit where roads division of the Mbombela Municipality
are housed. He referred me to the person in charge Koos de Wet. Mr. de Wet gave me permission to cut through as many roads as I wish anywhere from Hazyview to Nelspruit to build our own private telephone exchange.
He said I don't need to ever ask him for permission again, since cutting to
a depth of 25cm , 2cm wide to lay cables and then filling it up with bitumen
is standard procedure done many times throughout South-Africa.
I informed him that Icasa and Telkom won't exactly be jumping for joy. He said that the roads belong to Mbombela municipality and they don't take instructions from anybody.

His only concern was that I repair the road as I found it. Now one can only
imagine what you would have to go through to get permission form JHB
council. I would not even try where the street is relatively calm, I would
just do it. NIS fiber optics company in Nelspruit told me that their clients routinely cut through tar roads, their clients just don't advertise it.
In my case I want organize a band to play as we cut through the road and send the video to Icasa.

Cost analysis of community DSLAM in South-Africa
www.zyxel.com or www.paradyne.com DSLAM devices are used to connect a stretch of houses up to 4km in length. The backbone consists of telephone copper wire cable buried 30cm underground down the joint perimeter of the residences for the full length until a public road is reached. The backbone will thus cross property boundaries. On average there are 60 houses boxed in between 4 roads. They will share the cost of the 1km copper backbone and the DSLAM device. A $800 Zyxel Dslam with 8ports connects to a max of 64 ADSL2+ client devices. Each ADSL client device has a downstream capability of 24meg and an upstream of 2meg. A DSLAM is the device Telkom installs into it's exchange, providing an ADSL service. We will emulate Telkom by building our very own private telephone exchanges via fronting companies that will take the legal blame. Koos de Wet from the roads division in Nelspruit has given me and everybody else in South-Africa permission to cut through a public road in the Mbombela municipality , as long we fix it with bitumen.

Cost analysis of private telephone exchange:
Backbone cost shared by 50 houses in a block:
1km www.aberdare.co.za telephone cable. Twisted 4 pair shielded for underground use:
R4/m x 1000m = R4000
8port Zyxel DSLAM device: $800 or R5300
Labor to dig 1km trench 30cm deep through your yard: R2/m x 1000m = R2000
Sub total = R11300

Personal cost to connect your ADSL modem to private telephone exchange:
Underground Copper wire from backbone to your house:
R2/m x 5m for trench = R10
Galvanized elbow bend = R15
Pvc pipe 40cm = R20
10m x R4 copper wire = R40
White connector box = R30
Subtotal = R115

This setup will enable all the residents to share an Internet connection and Astrix VOIP.
Total cost for 50 users = R17050
Cost per user once off for infrastructure that will last 25 years: R341,00
And this is how you build your very own community telephone exchange and ISP.
Internet connectivity is added to this network from:
International Internet satellite companies:
http://www.bcsatellite.net
http://www.intersatafrica.com/xstream.html
http://www.satsig.net/ivsat-africa.htm
http://www.globaltt.com/
http://www.gb-solution.com/
http://www.bentleywalker.net/
By cutting through tar roads DSLAM's are linked and thus the entire South-Africa can link their telephone exchanges. It's as simple as that. Once the backbone infrastructure is in place additional services like www.elphel.com network cameras and Infrared floodlights to monitor the streets can be added.

CCTV and Infrared floodlights
Six www.elphel.com ethernet CCD cameras to cover the four streets: R5000 x 6 = R30000
Infrared floodlights provide night vision capability to CCD cameras: R1200 x 8 = R9600
Protective housing for cameras: R1000 x 6 = R6000
Subtotal = R45600
Additional labor: R4600
6 ADSL2+ client devices. The ethernet cameras are connected to these: R2400
These ADSL2+ client devices stream back the real-time video footage to the operator at the Dslam device. Each Elphel network camera needs 750kbit/s bandwidth.
Total cost for 50 houses: R70000
www.aviosys.com Mpeg4 frame grabbers and Ethernet cameras are an alternative supplier to Elphel.com .

A similar fiber optics deployment would cost 6 x times as much. DSLAM provides up to 10Gig bandwidth, making fiber optics redundant for most applications. To finance all of this, the community company will borrow money at the bank. Let every resident sign a 24month contract with a debit order to pay down R70000 + R7000 + R4000interest. Thus each residence only has to pay R70/month over two years if they opt for a full solution which includes CCTV. There is a business opportunity for entrepreneur to finance such a project. Anything more than R70/month would be his profit. After the two year period the residents take back full control of the infrastructure. They will have an immediate drop in their crime rates, 24 hour Internet connectivity and a boost in their property values. Council would be able to use the network to transfer data from their utility meters.

By forming a resident/council partnership, council could even be convinced to subsidize such a private telephone network. Could we at least start discussing the possibilities instead of assuming what can and can't be done? Council could for example make loan guarantees in the event of debit order defaults etc. Lets presume that this is so successful that Telkom rams down specific legislation 'banning' this. We will just laugh it off, since it simply won't be enforced by the police.
 
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someone has way to much time on their hands.

captainwifi - I'm asuming that with all this "knowledge" of yours you will have a private telephone network setup by the end of the month... since it's so easy to do......

oh 'm not going to continue this is a waste of my time and anyone else reading it.
 
Knysna goes Wireless

http://www.mybroadband.co.za/nephp/?m=show&id=516
Knysna goes wireless using the 5.8ghz spectrum provided by www.uninetwork.co.za.
“Our contract means that the Knysna municipality essentially becomes the anchor client ....”
The business model of a Wisp demands that the Wisp has the ultimate control over the data. It would be suicide for a Wisp to promote the power of a Dslam. My angle is that the municipality should have connected as many offices/residents via Dslams. This would place them in a position to dictate terms. The banal responses on this thread to my suggestion to partner with council and cut through the tar road is interesting to say the least. I have been discussing building our own telephone network with businesses in Hazyview and they are amazed that anybody can cut through a tar road. Most just assumed it couldn't be done. Data crossing the street is data crossing the street, via a data cable or wireless, there is no difference.
People are openly listing their GPS coordinates and posting “ I have a parabolic on my roof at this street” etc. Nobody has any fear of Icasa anymore concerning wireless. Lets go to the next step and build private telephone exchanges and partner with council where possible. And please would the MyAdsl master's with 2000 posts behind their name who obviously own an ISP stop blasting my idea. It is patently obvious to everybody that Telkom will cook your goose if they catch you cutting through roads. That
is your problem M-web and IS, not ours. There is nothing Telkom can do to residents/council. Is this so difficult to understand ?

http://www.criticaltelecom.com/products/sam.php has a product to
extend a Dslam network up to a distance of 25km. Their device multiplexes the Dslam ATM signal down a 2pair fiber to the Adsl modems. This is an alternative solution to daisy chaining Dslam's. Mutiple Dslams can be
controled from this Gemini product. See
http://www.convergedigest.com/blueprints/ttp03/z2critical1.asp?ID=38&ctgy=Loop
http://www.convergedigest.com/blueprints/ttp03/2.asp?ctgy=Loop
has further tutorial's on Dslams.
The SA public will just have to implement these solutions themselves and
leave the SA networking companies behind. I spoke to www.altech.co.za
this morning who gave me the 'liewe heksie' response: "Hi Blommie ek
het nie geweet nie' Yea right, nobody knows nothing. Further complicating the widespread adoption of Dslam are mentally challenged civil servants.
The councilors who award these IT contracts don't even know how to switch on a PC, their ignorance will be exploited to the max.
http://www.utstarcom.com , www.zyxel.com , www.paradyne.com
are the three Dslam producers I know about.
 
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has anyone come up with a solution for Perspectives? I have friend there, and he wants to get connected.
 
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