Can someone perhaps explain something pls?

[Frankc]

I read several articles regarding Seacom and other discussions about cost of bandwidth but not yet found an answer to the following.

Maybe somebody out there can help?

(For me it's almost clear that it's Telkom that mislead the public but just in case I missed something)

Let's take for example

R250 pm for ADSL
3 GB international and
30 FREE local bandwidth.

Over and above the fact that Telkom ADVERTISE FREE local bandwidth the package translate to a 1/10 ratio where international bandwidth is 10 times more expensive than local bandwidth.

What I now don't understand, and nowhere saw anyone question this issue, is that in many articles the "BLAME' for prices that don't comes down are mostly put on the "Last Mile".

How the sss can the last mile, thus FREE local bandwidth, now suddently be so expensive that it have such huge influence?

A bread cost R11 where the bread cost R10 and the plastic cost R1.

If the cost of making bread was reduced with R5 it's obvious that the bread and plastic should now cost R6 together and not R8 because of the plastic.

According Telkom's package above (well, previous package) international bandwidth cost R225 and local R25.

I will not be surprised if Telkom AGAIN rise the cap from 5GB int as a method to mislead the public and hide the ratio.

They advertise local bandwidth as FREE but 3/30 package is a 1/10 ratio (R100 int / R10 local)
They increase the cap to 15/30 so the ratio is 1/5 (R100 int / R50 local)
They increase the cap to 30/30 so the ratio is 1/1 (R100 int / R100 local)

And then claims local bandwidth, the last mile, is expensive so that they can still get more money even if everybody else offer international bandwidth for free. (R0 int / R100 local)

Me thinks they know the nail is in the coffin for international bandwidth monopoly so they now want to focus on the last mile and local bandwidth where they still have a monopoly.

Unless somebody have a better explanation I think we must VERY closely compare and monitor the local bandwidth issue and cost as the focus seems to moved from the expensive bread (broken Int bandwidth monopoly) to the free or low cost plastic (existing local bandwidth monopoly).

 

[davemc]

Because Telkom's local ADSL costing is not an actual cost based cost.

i.e. Telkom made up some figure to charge for local-only bandwidth when they realised that people are actually willing to pay for something that should be free.

The actual costs for local network access are already paid for by other fee's, two examples include:
- Your ISP buying into a portion of Telkom's IPConnect product.
- Your ADSL rental.

 

[Jizzims]

frank i think you think to much dude.... Just chill and get shafted like the rest of us have been getting shafted for years.... Its inevitable !

now go to the kitchen get a cup of coffee and look at the next girl that walks past

problem solved

 

[Keeper]

very good post.... I agree with you - perhaps keep prices in this thread?

 

[Frankc]

frank i think you think to much dude.... Just chill and get shafted like the rest of us have been getting shafted for years.... Its inevitable !

now go to the kitchen get a cup of coffee and look at the next girl that walks past

problem solved

Nope.

First I would not have enough money to run after her because of Telkom and secondly I cannot call her because of Telkom prices and thirdly it will just make me longing for a divorce, from Telkom.

Because Telkom's local ADSL costing is not an actual cost based cost.

i.e. Telkom made up some figure to charge for local-only bandwidth when they realised that people are actually willing to pay for something that should be free.

The actual costs for local network access are already paid for by other fee's, two examples include:
- Your ISP buying into a portion of Telkom's IPConnect product.
- Your ADSL rental.

My sentiments too because the taxpayer, not Telkom, initially paid for the biggest part of the local network and by paying even just a LINE rental it should anyway already cover the "LAST MILE" that more and more sounds like a foul word.

LINE Rental was sufficient to cover the infrastructure and maintenance of the last mile for many years before there even was data or broadband with voice calls the income part.

 

[thesuspect]

Just like a road costs millions to lay but eventually deteriates with huge potholes and needs maintanence, so a network needs constant work on it, be it maintanence or upgrading. So no, local cannot be free because Telkom has 25000 staff to pay to maintain the network and continually expand it. That is why prices won't fall dramatically, because Vodacom, MTN, Neotel, Dark Fibre etc.... will all have these same costs.

 

[Jizzims]

dont know dude look its life.... they need money for a service they offering we need the service so yeah.... Imagine food goes up we need food to live but even if it does go up we still need to buy ??

Nothing is for free in this world i say let it lay....

 

[Jizzims]

yeah well.... If i dont post here after 15H00 then my death is in your hands

will chat to em... Dam i feel like the apprentice... YOU FIRED

 

[Frankc]

Maybe someone can explain THIS to me please?

Where comes the "local mile" into play so far as that bandwidth cost is involved? It was never before part of the cost of bandwidth.

Rxx Line rental
Rxx Adsl (data) line rental

R250 for ADSL
- 3GB Telkom's SAT3 cable
- 30GB FREEEEEEE local bandwidth

Clearly above means that the first two cover the last mile, the local connection etc and bandwidth is thus separate. (Telkom almost ADMIT OPENLY AND IN PUBLIC that the infrastructure / last mile is already covered by the rental etc by advertising FREE local bandwidth. Obviously nothing can be free so it's again obviously it's ALREADY covered by other fees)

If SAT3 went down and Telkom unable to offer ADSL

Payble to Telkom

Rxx Line rental
Rxx Adsl (data) line rental

Payable to Neotel

R100 for ADSL
- 3GB Seacom cable
- 30GB FREEEEEEE local bandwidth

So by bringing the last mile into the picture it actually means that Telkom not only charge for the last mile with LINE Rental and DATA line rental but also by "incorporating" it into the price of bandwidth and thus charge 3 fold for the same thing.

Something is not right or people focus too much on international bandwidth cost and was catched asleep with the last mile issue.

 

[Keeper]

Nothing is for free in this world i say let it lay....

let it lay? dude, what are you doing on this forum if you don't care about bb prices?

if you compare our internet prices to other isp's, YES, YES they are practically getting it for free.

Telkom made up imaginary costs, and imaginary "specials" like local-only and crap like that.

in SA, we need to pay EXTRA money, just to be able to download X times more during the ungodly hours of the morning - while other countries have 100x the speed and uncapped during the day, at insanely cheap prices.

 

[Jizzims]

Frank i think you got a point ? well why dont we set up a petetion ??

 

[LFX]

i get so sick to the stomache when people try and insinuate that whatever telkom is charging is even remotely justifiable for silly reasons such as mentioned above (staff to pay).
if this was anywhere near valid then why are network operators abroad able to provision and roll out much higher technology networks at a fraction of the cost? not old prehistoric copper and ****.
the reason why prices are high is because of government. our government comprises of incompetent people who cannot be arsed thinking of the future and only wanna fill their own pockets. it is not a complexed situation and there is nothing trivial about it.

 

[Frankc]

Just like a road costs millions to lay but eventually deteriates with huge potholes and needs maintanence, so a network needs constant work on it, be it maintanence or upgrading. So no, local cannot be free because Telkom has 25000 staff to pay to maintain the network and continually expand it. That is why prices won't fall dramatically, because Vodacom, MTN, Neotel, Dark Fibre etc.... will all have these same costs.

Maybe you should think a bit deeper?

According my Telkom Account.

RENTAL / Your Telephone Line = R108.95 + VAT
RENTAL / DSL Faster = R285.96 + VAT

This cost is without 1kb of data or 1 second of voice so CLEARLY it's for the infrastructure / maintenance etc etc. Just like renting a house.

Voice = Rxx per minute
Bandwidth = Rxx per gb

This cost is cost for actual usage such as for example water, electricity, petrol etc.

IF NOBODY in SA make one phone call or use 1kb of data the RENTAL of telephone line and DSL faster alone already cover maintenance etc etc.

What you don't understand is that my whole point is that Telkom now turn around and ALSO work the "rental" cost into the usage cost.

R1000 to rent a house. (With all infrastructure and cables etc)
Electricity = R100 actual usage PLUS R10 per R100 to get the power to the house.

Seacom = Eskom

We already pay for the last mile to get the data / power to our houses via Telkom LINE RENTAL and muncipality fees etc.

The muncipality however don't ALSO charge Rxx per KW to get the power to your house but Telkom charge Rxx per GB over and above the LINE RENTAL to get Seacom data to us. (When THEY are the provider of such data then they themselves admit that it's FREE and already paid for, but when someone else now can provide such data suddenly they start claiming they are entitled to be paid for the "last mile" even while people already RENT it from them)

 

[Gaz{M}]

Because 99.9% of Telkom Internet users do not use the free local bandwidth. So it costs nothing to offer it.

This model doesn't apply when you are an outside ISP that needs to deliver international bw into the ADSL network.

 

[Frankc]

I thought of something interesting.

IF the ffff LAST MILE is so expensive and important, then let Telkom just INCREASE the RENTAL fees for the line.

Reasoning?

If they charge extensive fees for line rental (to cover the last mile, infrastructure, maintenance etc) it would be very, very easy to detect and fight.

Because of THAT they don't increase the line rental and just bluff people with rubbish.

I am damn no expert at all, but cannot understand why so many "experts" blame the last mile fees and forget the line rental fees? (If the cost for the last mile are part of the ACTUAL costs then surely Telkom must explain WHAT is the Line rental for - Not one, but in fact two for precise the same copper line. If voice and data lines was separate one could understand why paying for voice and data rental)

 

[Mineer]

Does any other ISP offer local bandwidth "free"

 

[LFX]

those so called experts are nothing more than a bunch of puppeteering advocates, yes im talking bout you mr world wide worx adn old the other people who talk bs

 

[Frankc]

Because 99.9% of Telkom Internet users do not use the free local bandwidth. So it costs nothing to offer it.

This model doesn't apply when you are an outside ISP that needs to deliver international bw into the ADSL network.

I can only up to a certain point agree with you because it's almost impossible to determine how much Telkom actually earn from different things.

As an example.

1)

You pay R105 for telephone line rental so do your friend so it means R220 for the connection between your two.

If you talk 10 minutes with him, YOU are charged say R5 but he can talk for FREE to you.

That's the current model and even accepted and used by Telkom. Right

2)

You pay R105 for telephone line rental + R258 for DSL faster so you pay R353 for a connection to the internet + R209 for ADSL (bandwidth). Total you pay is R716.00

You downloaded the maximum included 30 GB of data from a local website and 5 GB from an international website.

The local bandwidth is "FREE" for you, but the local website owner pay R2 400 for such 30 GB bandwidth. (The international website owner pay actually almost R0 for the bandwidth. You can get a server for R1500 with 2000 GB FREE bandwidth included)

You pay R719
Local Website owner pay R2400
Total R3119 (Even by offer YOU 30 GB FREE local bandwidth)

It's lke charging both YOU and your friend for a single phone call.

With the last mile.

You pay Rental (last mile)
Bandwidth prices miraciliously now ALSO include the last mile
Website owners also pay for the very same bandwidth.

So in the end Telkom get many from various fees, things and people for precise the same thing.

 

[Frankc]

This model doesn't apply when you are an outside ISP that needs to deliver international bw into the ADSL network.

Perfect example of what I am talking about.

Can you perhaps explain to me what's the difference between a visitor download 5 gb or a website provide the 5 gb data?

It's an one-way data communication. The very same connection and the very same data (bandwidth) but paid double for.

Something to consider.

I have hundreds of websites international and don't pay a CENT for my data being carried on either the Seacom or SAT3 cables directly. It's paid for connection side. (Each server have it's own FREE 2000 GB connection to the backbone)

If such websites was hosted locally I would however be forced to pay R80 per GB and that translates into R160 000 per 2000 GB for either local and international bandwidth.

Current datacenter

If an international visitor downloaded 2000 GB, I pay R0 for bandwidth
If a LOCAL visitor downloaded 2000 GB, I must pay R0 for bandwidth

Local datacenter

If an international visitor downloaded 2000 GB, I must pay R160 000
If a LOCAL visitor downloaded 2000 GB, I must pay R160 000.

So, while almost everybody on this forum talk about CONNECTION bandwidth and some even try to justify Telkom's prices, take above WEBSITE BANDWIDTH into account and THEN consider it again just how much money Telkom make.