Cape Town - Solar Install Quotation

[RonSwanson]

I definitely won't need it

Even on the worst rainy days I've managed to generate sufficient to charge batteries to full.

14kw of generation on 2 roof's, and that only needs to charge about 5-6kWhr of LFP for overnight use - less if I turn off some non-essentials.

That said, I only have 10kWh of LFP, I'd like more, but money is better used on other things at the moment.

No grid here, so its all solar, all the time.

Yes, that's another option, I have considered it myself countless times, but not for the faint of heart or without specific and very reliable automated controls in place.
So tell us your secret: How exactly do you exceed the maximum voltage specs of the MPPT controller so that it only allows extra panels to generate on cloudy days? Or is your system just one total huge overkill?

 

[itareanlnotani]

Yes, that's another option, I have considered it myself countless times, but not for the faint of heart or without specific and very reliable automated controls in place.
So tell us your secret: How exactly do you exceed the maximum voltage specs of the MPPT controller so that it only allows extra panels to generate on cloudy days? Or is your system just one total huge overkill?

I'm like HK and Macau.

One country, two systems. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems )

(Upper House) SunSynk 8KW | 24 x 395W (9.45kW) Panels Microgrid "AC" tied via Aux | (really really) Dead Dead Acid [12/200ah x 4] ->
(Lower House) Victron Multiplus 48v /3000 | Victron 150/70 MPPT | 12 x 300W Panels (3.6kW) | Revov 10KW LFP | PI w/Venus [ Off Grid ]

And I got 30% for math doh! Actually a little over 13kW installed. Oops. Bad math.

That said, I do have another row of panels to stick on up on the lower system at some point, just need to move them over from another location. Total will be in the region of 14 and a bit when done.

I'm sure I've talked about my system before though in other threads.

 

[RonSwanson]

I'm like HK and Macau.

One country, two systems. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems )

(Upper House) SunSynk 8KW | 24 x 395W (9.45kW) Panels Microgrid "AC" tied via Aux ->
(Lower House) Victron Multiplus 48v /3000 | Victron 150/70 MPPT | 12 x 300W Panels (3.6kW) | Revov 10KW LFP | PI w/Venus [ Off Grid ]

And I got 30% for math doh! Actually a little over 13kW installed. Oops. Bad math.

That said, I do have another row of panels to stick on up on the lower system at some point, just need to move them over from another location. Total will be in the region of 14 and a bit when done.

I'm sure I've talked about my system before though in other threads.

Yep, you have but it doesn't make economic sense, because you can do that with an 8K Sunsynk and maybe add a small Solis. You've got what I would refer to as overkill.
What would be really smart is a system that analyses the weather (cloud cover) and forecasts, and would add (switch on) additional (redundant) panels to compensate on cloudy days, and then switch off the extra panels before things get too toasty (near 500V). An 8k inverter that can take up to 17.2k panels, similar to the 3.6K Sunsynk with a 7K MPPT controller.

 

[itareanlnotani]

Yep, you have but it doesn't make economic sense, because you can do that with an 8K Sunsynk and maybe add a small Solis. You've got what I would refer to as overkill.
What would be really smart is a system that analyses the weather (cloud cover) and forecasts, and would add (switch on) additional (redundant) panels to compensate on cloudy days, and then switch off the extra panels before things get too toasty (near 500V). An 8k inverter that can take up to 17.2k panels, similar to the 3.6K Sunsynk with a 7K MPPT controller.

No, it wouldn't make economic sense, but I will be using the upstairs house in the future. My roof is 12m up, so made sense to install the panels and do the wiring before the house is complete, even if its not in full use yet.

At some point the upper house will start being used, for now its a little overkill, but longer term its reasonable.
I do need more battery though. Right now I'm still renovating. Budgetary constraints mean that I can't finish as much as I'd like as yet.

Right now upstairs is working on some rather old and rather dead, dead acid, which isn't the best.
Enough juice in them to power upstairs overnight (hot water geyser and an office that I recently finished), so for now it's an acceptable solution.

I live downstairs, any excess from upstairs comes in to supplement the downstairs house system and charge the 10kWhr battery. My charging limits for the battery are effectively whatever the Victron can pull in at max in conjunction with whatever its supplying (around 2.8-3kW, depending on house load). Obviously the Sunsynk could supply more, but I can't pull more downstairs...


You can do an oversized system with external MPPT controllers. On an integrated inverter like the Sunsynk, that might be problematic. I guess will depend on whever both devices (Sunsynk and MPPT) can talk to the battery over canbus and co-ordinate charging. I wouldn't want to risk it though, would probably make more sense to have another Sunsynk in series and connect more panels to that.

YMMV...

Office photo - as I'm quite happy with the result. Floor was finished on Thursday.

 

[Snyper564]

R250K for solar installation. Oh how the rich live.

I dont "waste" my money on things that dont benefit me for example still driving my 12 year old corsa

1. I have been saving for this for YEARS, with great dedication and sacrificing other nice to haves. Even now I could do a many other necessary things with this money or just sit on it and pay my house off faster.

2. I’m not actually paying that and the final quotation I’ve accepted is R193k because I’m struggling to accept going over 200k myself.

3. My electricity right now is an average of R2000 a month, sometimes a little more and it will be increasing in July.

The solar over 10 years will cost me R1600 a month. Even if I end up spending R400 a month still with Eskom to cover grid costs I’ll be paying what I would have been paying right now and that is ignoring price increases going forwards.

At the current rate of increases I’m willing to bet by year 5 or 6 it will have paid for itself.

4. And for spending the same money I never need to deal and suffer through Load Shedding again.

Effectively I’m doing it up front and locking in the price.

Yeah many ppl complain abt the price of solar but blow a bar on a car. I'll gladly put the money towards solar and something that benefits my life. Daily

 

[SauRoNZA]

I dont "waste" my money on things that dont benefit me for example still driving my 12 year old corsa

Yeah many ppl complain abt the price of solar but blow a bar on a car. I'll gladly put the money towards solar and something that benefits my life. Daily

More so with working from home most of the time being a thing now.

Same reason I’m not buying a new bike because as it stands it’s now very much a leisure item.

 

[Snyper564]

More so with working from home most of the time being a thing now.

Same reason I’m not buying a new bike because as it stands it’s now very much a leisure item.

100%

Both my wife and I are working from home now, was going to get a new car two years ago. Haven't filed it up more than 4 times since hard lock down now. Simply can't justify nor care to get a new one anytime soon.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

I dont "waste" my money on things that dont benefit me for example still driving my 12 year old corsa

Yeah many ppl complain abt the price of solar but blow a bar on a car. I'll gladly put the money towards solar and something that benefits my life. Daily

See it plenty here. People driving M(whatever) and AMGs, but complain about outages and load shedding. Their reason for not having a proper system is "I don't have that much saved up".

Generating your own power also has other knock on effects on your lifestyle. I'm convinced that if I need a new car it must be electric, and basically running it for free instead of suffering at the pumps...

 

[RonSwanson]

No, it wouldn't make economic sense, but I will be using the upstairs house in the future. My roof is 12m up, so made sense to install the panels and do the wiring before the house is complete, even if its not in full use yet.

At some point the upper house will start being used, for now its a little overkill, but longer term its reasonable.
I do need more battery though. Right now I'm still renovating. Budgetary constraints mean that I can't finish as much as I'd like as yet.

Right now upstairs is working on some rather old and rather dead, dead acid, which isn't the best.
Enough juice in them to power upstairs overnight (hot water geyser and an office that I recently finished), so for now it's an acceptable solution.

I live downstairs, any excess from upstairs comes in to supplement the downstairs house system and charge the 10kWhr battery. My charging limits for the battery are effectively whatever the Victron can pull in at max in conjunction with whatever its supplying (around 2.8-3kW, depending on house load). Obviously the Sunsynk could supply more, but I can't pull more downstairs...


You can do an oversized system with external MPPT controllers. On an integrated inverter like the Sunsynk, that might be problematic. I guess will depend on whever both devices (Sunsynk and MPPT) can talk to the battery over canbus and co-ordinate charging. I wouldn't want to risk it though, would probably make more sense to have another Sunsynk in series and connect more panels to that.

YMMV...

Office photo - as I'm quite happy with the result. Floor was finished on Thursday.

View attachment 1309944

Nice spot. Love the floor.

 

[RonSwanson]

You can do an oversized system with external MPPT controllers. On an integrated inverter like the Sunsynk, that might be problematic.

Why is that? I can oversize on my 5K Sunsynk just placing a 6K Solis on the Aux, but that is overkill, and not smart because what I really would like to achieve is to do it without the extra hardware i.e. for it to determine that it is 09H00 and I am only producing 500W, therefore heavily overcast, and flick a 5-8K bank of extra panels on, producing 1200W. And then at 12H00, determine that it is no longer heavily overcast, only lightly (because voltage is at 450V), and kill half of the extra bank. Literally a bank of (arguably overkill but cheap) panels that get enabled and disabled dependent on ambient weather conditions.
Using the Solis, it would end up costing me an additional 55-65K, when it ought to cost 30-40K.

 

[itareanlnotani]

Why is that? I can oversize on my 5K Sunsynk just placing a 6K Solis on the Aux, but that is overkill, and not smart because what I really would like to achieve is to do it without the extra hardware i.e. for it to determine that it is 09H00 and I am only producing 500W, therefore heavily overcast, and flick a 5-8K bank of extra panels on, producing 1200W. And then at 12H00, determine that it is no longer heavily overcast, only lightly (because voltage is at 450V), and kill half of the extra bank. Literally a bank of (arguably overkill but cheap) panels that get enabled and disabled dependent on ambient weather conditions.
Using the Solis, it would end up costing me an additional 55-65K, when it ought to cost 30-40K.

You can (and should!) oversize panels installs for inverters. Rough rule of thumb is about 133% of capacity.
Read your inverter manual to confirm though. Not all are.

Eg the Sunsynk 8KW can have 10400W of panels connected.
The 5KW can have 6500w of panels connected.

My recommendation is to put as many panels as you can afford on the roof, as install/labour is typically higher than other costs, especially when compared to adding a few more panels.

Found a link which also discusses it https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/oversizing-solar-arrays/

NB - Max Voltage should never be exceeded, but amps can be exceeded, as the inverter will clip.

 

[RonSwanson]

You can (and should!) oversize panels installs for inverters. Rough rule of thumb is about 133% of capacity.
Read your inverter manual to confirm though. Not all are.

Eg the Sunsynk 8KW can have 10400W of panels connected.
The 5KW can have 6500w of panels connected.

My recommendation is to put as many panels as you can afford on the roof, as install/labour is typically higher than other costs, especially when compared to adding a few more panels.

Found a link which also discusses it https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/oversizing-solar-arrays/

NB - Max Voltage should never be exceeded, but amps can be exceeded, as the inverter will clip.

Yep, I understand all of that, have well over 6K on the roof feeding my 5K SS.
I want to be able to triple that in a cost effective and responsible manner.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

I dont "waste" my money on things that dont benefit me for example still driving my 12 year old corsa

Yeah many ppl complain abt the price of solar but blow a bar on a car. I'll gladly put the money towards solar and something that benefits my life. Daily

I drive a17 year old car. LOL. It would take at least 4-5 years for me to recover R200K of "investment" and if ethics of solar installation operators are remotely similar to pool installers, electricians & plumbers etc, I would take my chances with Eskom/COJ for now. Till I have R200K to spare - which looks rather far away considering other things.

To each his own.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

I drive a17 year old car. LOL. It would take at least 4-5 years for me to recover R200K of "investment" and if ethics of solar installation operators are remotely similar to pool installers, electricians & plumbers etc, I would take my chances with Eskom/COJ for now. Till I have R200K to spare - which looks rather far away considering other things.

To each his own.

Or you can use the money that you're paying Eskom to finance a system over 5 years. You start saving immediately because your instalment remains fixed and doesn't escalate annually, unlike Eskom. After your term ends, your power is free.

There are options if you're determined enough to get it done, which I find most South Africans aren't...

 

[Saba'a]

1. I have been saving for this for YEARS, with great dedication and sacrificing other nice to haves. Even now I could do a many other necessary things with this money or just sit on it and pay my house off faster.

2. I’m not actually paying that and the final quotation I’ve accepted is R193k because I’m struggling to accept going over 200k myself.

3. My electricity right now is an average of R2000 a month, sometimes a little more and it will be increasing in July.

The solar over 10 years will cost me R1600 a month. Even if I end up spending R400 a month still with Eskom to cover grid costs I’ll be paying what I would have been paying right now and that is ignoring price increases going forwards.

At the current rate of increases I’m willing to bet by year 5 or 6 it will have paid for itself.

4. And for spending the same money I never need to deal and suffer through Load Shedding again.

Effectively I’m doing it up front and locking in the price.

Ultimately installed in stages:
1. Inverter and batteries - when my work was impacted by a 9 hour power outage.
2. Solar power - when my neighbours were without power for 2 days!
3. My electricity already after one full month of solar reduced by 30% without proper usage tweaked nor optimal batteries and/or panels. Reduced cash outflow worth it.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

Or you can use the money that you're paying Eskom to finance a system over 5 years. You start saving immediately because your instalment remains fixed and doesn't escalate annually, unlike Eskom. After your term ends, your power is free.

There are options if you're determined enough to get it done, which I find most South Africans aren't...

This is not directed at you but I have found that people are either not honest at worst or ignorant at best to track exact cost of solar installation & maintenance over, say, 15 years time. Everyone pitches in with X rands at beginning and divide by 5/7. Surely, are we saying that our solar install operators & equipment is so perfect that it will not need any maintenance/breakage/anything at all? Or is it like under 10K rands over 10 years time?

 

[TheChamp]

This is not directed at you but I have found that people are either not honest at worst or ignorant at best to track exact cost of solar installation & maintenance over, say, 15 years time. Everyone pitches in with X rands at beginning and divide by 5/7. Surely, are we saying that our solar install operators & equipment is so perfect that it will not need any maintenance/breakage/anything at all? Or is it like under 10K rands over 10 years time?

Most of the stuff has years of warranty, with solar panels you just put it up there and forget about it, batteries and inverters do give issues now and then, the batteries mostly 10 years and panels up to 25 years, even if something does break its still a better bet than some expensive things that people spend loads of money on.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

This is not directed at you but I have found that people are either not honest at worst or ignorant at best to track exact cost of solar installation & maintenance over, say, 15 years time. Everyone pitches in with X rands at beginning and divide by 5/7. Surely, are we saying that our solar install operators & equipment is so perfect that it will not need any maintenance/breakage/anything at all? Or is it like under 10K rands over 10 years time?

A decent battery will come with a 10 year warranty. More for panels. As long as you follow the spec you should get 15+ years out of your batteries.

Also once the instalment term ends in 5 years and your electricity is free, you can save your money that you would have paid Eskom towards upgrades and replacements. If your batteries need replacing after 15 years, this gives you 10 years of savings to cover it. For a R2k a month bill, you can replace one battery after only one year of saving.

If you're going to save for the capital outlay upfront, you still pay Eskom in the mean time which eats into your savings. For a R2k a month bill, this is R120k going into that black hole...

 

[Tongs of Destiny]

why not get a Hybrid inverter with an integrated MPPT? You've been quoted R40k for an 8kw inverter + MPPT. You could get 2x Growatt 5kw inverters which have integrated MPPTs for around R25k.. or am I missing something?

I still think the best bet is to buy everything yourself and then get an installer to quote on the job, sometimes these all in one quotes are madness.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

Most of the stuff has years of warranty, with solar panels you just put it up there and forget about it, batteries and inverters do give issues now and then, the batteries mostly 10 years and panels up to 25 years, even if something does break its still a better bet than some expensive things that people spend loads of money on.

I hear you but battery & solar panel warranty is only worth if the company or the provider exists after 10 years. Most change locations, phone numbers, company names etc so you can't track them down.

I am being my cynical self but tell me a solar installation installer/company that can be traced back at least 10+ years with decent customer feedback (and not talking about hellopeter which is a cesspool)